New info on Dual Opteron SFF :) [Archive] - Page 3

FastLaneJBUK

08-19-2005, 06:04 PM

Hi there,

I think your spot on there to be honest about the heat in the system. I was having problems with my Geforce 6800GT stuttering on occasions in games / video playback, it was running really quite hot.

I've got 2 x 250 Opterons, I think the hottest ones out unfortantely :( So the fans were running high most of the time but not at full whack. I turned the temp setting down a ton so the fans now always run at full speed. It's loud but to be honest I find that better than the fans spinning up and down all the time.

It also solved the problem with the Geforce card stuttering. I think unfortantely with such little space in the case and means of getting the air out, it's the only way to keep other parts of the machine running without problems.

If they solve this problem then that alone would tempt me to switch to a ZmaxD2 but I'm not so sure. With the advent of dual core processors, you can have something like a Shuttle SN25P which cools the processor way way better and still be multicore.

Of course if the price of dual core Opterons drop, then it'll be quad core in a ZmaxDP or D2. I'd never make proper use of that much CPU power I doubt but I bet it would multitask like a champ! :)

northernmonkey

08-22-2005, 08:16 AM

been so busy i havnt had time to reply,

anyway i have had the case off mine for about a week now cos of the cable i suspected of been bad (only had straight so the case wont go back on) and all of my problems have gone away completly!

So its getting far too hot

I dont want to cut a hole in the nice finish of the case so its going to have to be back at the top where that black sticker is. Now i need a supplier of those small fans out of 1U servers in the UK, and a dremel

jsnorman

08-22-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by northernmonkey
I dont want to cut a hole in the nice finish of the case so its going to have to be back at the top where that black sticker is. Now i need a supplier of those small fans out of 1U servers in the UK, and a dremel

I would strongly recommend cutting the hole in the left side, near where the southbridge is. There is decent airflow in the back of the case, but none of it is able to cool the southbridge because that chip is so far toward the front of the case. I think there has to be a fan mounted on the side for this to work, or else actively cool (with a fan or much larger heatsink) the southbridge.

If you mount the fan on the inside of the case, and drill several dozen 1/4" holes in a circle pattern, it will not look bad at all I think. That is what I am going to do. I will post pics when I actually do it but for now I have no case on.

iatacs19

08-22-2005, 03:32 PM

I don't think it's a good idea to cut a hole. What you need to do is be able to get the heat off the chip to where the CPU heatsink is. Then the CPU fans can exhaust the heat out the case. Replacing the heatsink with a larger one should help too, one with taller fins.

Did anyone try to take off that clear plastic blocking the airflow inside the power supply?

I think it would have been even better to have designed this thing with an external power supply...

OR

as an extreme modification you could cut out the grill in the back of the powersupply and replace it with 2 72mm fan guards. This should increase the airflow greatly and reduce noise since the turbulence should be somewhat less.

Fan Guard (http://store.yahoo.com/svcompucycle/58556.html)

I recommend you look inside the case and try to figure out how the heat management works before cutting up the pretty case.

jsnorman

08-22-2005, 04:46 PM

I don't agree - while restricted airflow out the back is clearly true, my system is cooling the CPUs just fine. I can keep my CPUs at 34C no problem. I am about to try 30C since I still want the fans to go on more than they are going on now.

So the CPU/heatpipe is getting plenty of cooling. But the problem in my view is that there is zero airflow in front of the case, beginning where the heatpipes/heatsinks end, to the drives, southbridge, etc. There is just absolutely no airflow. The fans draw the air backwards towards the fans, from the low side slits. This creates an airflow pattern that is roughly V shaped. Air flows in from the side slit, and gets pulled in an angle towards the back of the case. This means that the components in the middle-front of the case simply get no airflow. More powerful fans, better rear airflow, etc. will not cure this serious design flaw. You need to get the air moving though/over the front.

Also, creating more surface area in the open open space in the back cannot increase airflow if the total surface area of the side slits (from which the air enters) is less than the surface area of the newly-created open space in back (e.g., output area should not be much different from input area in terms of airflow). From my eyeballing it, I would guess that the surface area of the slit openings is roughly the same or maybe less as the existing holes in the rear, so I doubt there is much to be gained unless you also open up some holes in the top, bottem or sides of the case.

As an aside, I noted just now that the side slits are covered with a mesh which further restricts airflow - removing the mesh might be a good idea too.

I did remove the power supply cover anyway and did get rid of some extra plastic but I do not think that is helping. Also, the plastic appears to be there to protect against accidental electrical shock or short circuits - it covers the capacitors and some metal components that would otherwise be very close to the metal grid/ground!

I did remove some of the plastic already but that did not help. I think there is just too much other stuff in the way between the fans and the cage to really make a difference with removing the plastic, and the fact that the side slits are just not big enough to draw in more air to the front. Putting the fan grills on and cutting out the back may help more, and I may do that if the side fan doesn't do the trick, but I think the side fan will work.

What I plan to do is use an 80mm case fan with thermal control blowing into the case right over the southbridge. With the fan blowing in, that will generate lots of air movement at the front, around the drives, etc. where the airflow right now is the worst/non-existent. It should also help move air out the back of the case.

In terms of the pretty case, I am going to mount my fan on the inside and drill a pattern of 1/4" holes in concentric circles 5-6 concentric circles should do it - not the best in terms of airflow but it should be a heck of a lock better than no fan at all, and the end result will not show much at all from the outside. There is plenty of room for the fan on the inside left part of the case, so it definitely does not need to be externally mounted. The holes will barely show or will look like OEM design.

northernmonkey

08-23-2005, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by jsnorman
What I plan to do is use an 80mm case fan with thermal control blowing into the case right over the southbridge. With the fan blowing in, that will generate lots of air movement at the front, around the drives, etc. where the airflow right now is the worst/non-existent. It should also help move air out the back of the case.

thats what ive done, except the main reason for mine was to cool the hard drives and not the southbridge. its pushed up to the hard drive with about 8-10mm gap. The air it blows comes from the side vent in part and the compartment created by the graphics card which is never hot. I didnt need thermal control as the default noise of the fan is far less than the power supply fan.

I just need some more spare time to work out the rest of the cooling details. still thinking about venting the hot air from the top down the side and out of the pci slot or side vent.

peedub

08-25-2005, 11:27 AM

I put a 92mm Akasa fan next to the HDDs (at the end of the graphics card) and it has lowered my HDD temps by at least 10 degrees. The fan speed is set to 45% in speedfan (= 1,200 rpm approx) and is virtually silent - any faster and you can hear the fan. I reckon there's enough room for a 120mm fan if your PCI slot is empty.

It has also changed the CPU fan activity - before, they would alternate between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm (Smart fan at 52). Now fan speeds are CPU0 fan 2,000 (and stays there) and CPU1 fan goes from 2,000 to 3,000 rpm.

All this equals a a quieter system, although I am still planning the external PSU and 120mm fan mod for an even quieter PC.

Another possible mod is to replace the PSU fans for quieter SilentX ones or even to just put shock mounts on the existing fans. I'm getting vibration from the fans into the PC case and then onto my desk which resonates and amplifies the sound. I've tried some cheap rubber feet to no effect.

northernmonkey

08-26-2005, 07:02 AM

the feet on my case are rubber, very sticky rubber as i cant slide or move the box at all when on the table.

could be that your fan is off balance or on its way out, a 40mm fans doing the same at work now and its driving me mad, a gental tap sorts it out.

FastLaneJBUK

08-30-2005, 04:56 PM

Just wondering but does anyone have a picture of their case mod? I would consider doing it too but I must confess to being a mod virgin so it would be nice to see some pictures and maybe reference to fans used.

I'd like to get my HDD's a bit cooler or well just the front of the case to be honest.

peedub

09-03-2005, 04:09 PM

Success! Well, sort of...

As an experiment of sorts, I removed the PSU and made a duct from cardboard to direct the flow of air from the CPU heatsinks, through the hole where the PSU used to be, to a 120mm fan. There is also a 92mm fan blowing accross the HDDs from the left hand side of the case.

Temps are now 40 degrees idle (cover off) and never above 50 degrees with both CPUs working on 2 separate 20min renders at the same time. This is opposed to 54 degrees idle and fans at full blast during the renders.

Noise levels are very low - the most noticable sound is still the CPU fans at their lowest setting. I am planning to replace the PSU later with a quieter one.

So the next step is to redesign the duct so that I can get the cables from the PSU into the case from the back (which means that I can get the cover back on) and to fabricate the new duct from sheet steel.

Fan Duct 1 (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17qc.jpg)

Fan Duct 2 (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27pu.jpg)

It's ugly but it works.

Stormlord

09-04-2005, 06:26 AM

Peedub,

I suggested a 12cm solution for ZMAXD2 to Iwill Taiwan aswell, but they couldn't get that done within the confines of the case. Surely, noboy would want to buy it with such a contraption out of the back either. But it is a solution to quiet things down a bit...

Regards,

David

peedub

09-04-2005, 12:38 PM

I agree - nobdy would buy something as ugly as my contraption. But...

There is enough space above the PSU in its original position to enlarge the PSU to fit a larger fan - possibly 120mm. Of course it would mean a re-design, but why would iWill consider it? It's not as if there are any other dual CPU SLi SFF PCs out there (or any others that use as many acromyms!). If Shuttle came out with a dual CPU SLi box that was quieter, then I'm sure iWill would see things s bit differently.

As for my duct - it was a rough-and-ready test to see if a large fan would be enough to cool the two Opterons. Now that I know that it works, I shall spend more time on the design of the duct. I should be able to get it so that it extends no more than 10mm further than the original PSU.

Of course there is still the external PSU to consider, which kind of defeats the object of having an SFF, but for me the priority was size, not portability. My solution is still going to be smaller than an ATX case.

SLiLOVER

09-04-2005, 01:31 PM

Small is actually now powerful.

Stormlord

09-04-2005, 06:40 PM

Peedub,

the problem is getting it done without requiring a change in the casemolds or any other expensive changes. I do not know if you have a clue about how much that costs, but I can tell you that it is VERY expensive (think in 6 digit dollar numbers for just changing the casemolds)... What you are suggesting requires a redesign of: the heatsink (the fins are the wrong way for an up- flow design), the psu (it was too light for D2 as it was already, and the current design contains the 2 6cm fans) and the case. I'm wondering: where will you fit the 12cm fan with an optical drive installed? Most 12cm fans are 25mm thick. Needless to say, it's going to take something else that costs less money or an OEM to finance the R&D & molds to change that position.

Shuttle is not making them because it likely is not in their market (mass volume mainstream), and it is a niche market as it is. They are not experienced in dual cpu designs at all, and I do not think they have any plans to go there.

Note: this is more a technology showcase than it is profitable.
Really, the volume is that low - it requires quite a bit more volume to make any money. Right now, I think we are still well under 1000 pieces ZMAXDP produced. It probably needs >5000 pieces to be profitable.

While I think we can all agree it could have been better with a slightly larger case and 12cm or 92mm coolingsolution, I do not think we should consider thinking lightly about the required changes involved to make it like that. A few centimeters deeper or wider could work miracles on the case, but unfortunately - that's not an option - and that makes it much harder to find a better solution than what is currently planned for D2 (which is 4 wire speedcontrolled fans, according to Titan working much more silently).

I've also been thinking about design changes, including using a 1U style powersupply - but unfortunately that's not an easy solution either and it is loud aswell (4cm fan!). It could have allowed for a more standard psu and upto higher wattage though. Maybe a cooling solution for the PSU could be found through heatpipes, but that would make it again proprietary, hence expensive - so that's not what we wanted....

Kind Regards,

David

northernmonkey

09-05-2005, 04:14 AM

wow that is an ugly mod :p

i haven't been able to try anything on mine yet, due to the windows install getting corrupted, then testing of the hardrive, then the controller, then getting the flu!! :( i know its not even the end of summer yet and ive got the flu! now im going on holiday soon. It doesnt look like ill get anything done till mid september now.

Noticed that you removed the bracket for the wifi antenna any reason?

ivo

09-05-2005, 10:10 AM

wow!!! what a nice realization. In fact, i was thinking of doing similar things to my two zmaxdp's cause of their terrible, screaming noise.

Fan Duct 1 (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17qc.jpg)

Fan Duct 2 (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27pu.jpg)

It's ugly but it works. [/B][/QUOTE]

but as you say it looks uglly and I assume that it's still not quite. you said that you intend to replace the PSU too. this is really loud. in fact i allready thought of sending it back to where it comes from. at least, the sff-box did really not meet my expactations which come from the ad on the iwill website. there, they describe their cooling system as followed:

.............................cited.from.http://www.iwill.com.tw/product_2.asp?p_id=36&sp=Y

Quiet Operation with Silence Cooling System

Built with two over large copper-based heatsink and fins , the ZMAXdp both delivers tremendous power and at the same time draws less power and produces less heat. To dissipate the heat it does produce, two big and low speed fans draw air from the bottom of the machine, across the storage. processor, power supply and out the back. It keep your system amazingly cool, stable and ultra quiet

.............................cited.from.http://www.iwill.com.tw/product_2.asp?p_id=36&sp=Y

Nonetheless, i think they would not just take it back and return me the money i payed :-). So another option would be the modd just as peedub did it. but the the clue of the sff-case would be lost. third option would be to try to sell it, with some lost, of course. buy a BIG tower with water cooling and forgett about it. unfortunately, the last option is not that easy to realize, because everyone to which i present the zmaxdp running deos not want to have it anymore :-(. I allready see me throwing it away. i think it's the easiest solution, at least, it means no mor work/effort invested in that sff-box which, nevertheless, will never be quite!

...ivo

peedub

09-06-2005, 06:44 AM

Stormlord,

I'm studying product design at the moment and so have a fair idea of the costs and issues involved in design and manufacturing, but I had no idea that the ZMAXdp was produced in such low numbers!! Kudos to iWill for even making this available then!

It would be interesting to how many there are. Mine is number ZMAXDP00000016 - does anyone have a higher no.?

Still, this is a fantastic machine, and it's fun to have a poke around and play about with it :D

northernmonkey

The Wi-Fi antenna came off in an attempt to fit in an extra HDD above the PSU. It does fit, but gets WAY too hot. It seemed a shame to let the unused space there go to waste. You could get a fan in there to vent out of the top of the case.

I tried not to do any irreversible changes to the case at this stage - but one idea was to duct air from the heat sinks out through the top of the case with a large fan. The stock PSU would remain in-situ (though pushed further out to accommodate a duct) to vent air from the rest of the case.

ivo,

The mod does make the machine very quiet � but not silent (which I don�t think is realistic anyway). The loudest sound is a low buzz and whine from the PSU fans at low speed.

Another alternative is a Reserator - but I don't have a spare 200 pounds at the moment!

The workshops at uni open next week, so I'll be able to get some kind of duct made out of sheet steel made soon. I'm going to play around with some more cardboard this week to see if I can reduce the size of the duct.

ivo

09-06-2005, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by peedub

It would be interesting to how many there are. Mine is number ZMAXDP00000016 - does anyone have a higher no.?

hi peedub,

I have two of these 'monsters'. their serial numbers used to be ZMAXDP00000230 respectively ZMAXDP00000231. but after RMA them back to Stormlord i had both of the mobos replaced. so, i have something in the .......250's now. sorry but i do not remember more exactly.

regards...

...ivo

Stormlord

09-06-2005, 03:03 PM

Ivo, Peedub,

I think thusfar only 500-600 pieces (a very low qty) have been made, but I don't know for sure.

R&D and casemolds are a big part in making up the product's price - not just the labour and BOM(bill of materials). Taking into account some of the parts are proprietary, that doesn't exactly make it much cheaper.. When you see the numbers, you just know that it can't be profitable. That's why I had also hoped they could have done something with a 12cm fan to lower the noiselevel and improve thermal solution for the overal casetemp aswell - and so increase the customer base. Unfortunately Titan (D2 product manager) probably tried just about everything without having it involve too high a cost. According to him the PSU fans are quieter now, they use 4 wire control so react more appropriately as required by the system. But I have to see my first D2 still (there were 10 working product samples available this week but most have them have already been assigned). The samples are very close to final product, with likely things like manuals missing or not printed/finalised yet. Mass production is planned for october, the price for D2 is higher than DP.

Also, for the people who had been asking before: there won't be an upgradekit available because there were some small modifications to the mountingholes for motherboard/heatsink etc... according to Titan.

Regards,

David

koryo

09-15-2005, 06:06 PM

here's my cardboard mod! i did it right off the bat in an attempt to reduce the heat inside the case. i think it worked. the exhaust exits out the second PCI slot.

<a href="http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/958/cardboardvideocardfanduct7mm.jpg" target="_blank">Video FAN MOD!</a>

however, as of late my zmax is running hotter. anyone else have this? reason being, i finally got around to flashing the BIOS 116 from a CD. i did the cool down reset procedure, yet immediately upon reboot the fans cranked up noticeably louder than before. i have the smart fan temp set at 52C.

what gives?

koryo

koryo

09-15-2005, 07:13 PM

ZMAXDP00000316 and 317

zilch

09-17-2005, 04:47 PM

Here's my mod, inspired by peedub's:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8574/img0027zd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5819/img0036tw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I have to apologize for the poor quality pics.

CPU fan holding @ around 3000-3300rpm with Folding@Home
running in the background. I did increase the Smart Fan Threshold
from 42C to 45C in Bios. Makes a huge difference but leaving the
3.5" drive bay cover open keeps the fans at a slower rpm vs it being
closed the rpm is dramatically higher. And yes the 3.5" drive bay is
empty.

Here are my specs
ZMaxdp Bios v115
Opteron 242 x 2
512 x 2 PC3200 buffered
AIW 9600
1 Seagate SATA 80GB

Parts bought at Fry's
90mm to 80mm converter mount
90mm fan 60CFM 2800rpm 32dbA
http://www.mdmm.com/products/techietoyz/Specs/MD-TTF-9025A-2B2.htm

The 90mm to 80mm mount fits nicely over the back of the stock
power supply grill. I could have done a better job cutting the hole
for the 3 pin power to slip through but look from the inside-out to
see where there is a serial port cutout on the sheet metal header.
The scotch taping is only temporary.

Before the mod, the fans were maxing out and temps were in the
50's and 60's. Now the temp hasn't peaked past 55C. For once,
this zmaxdp investment is tolerable with the noise level. Thank
God! I had almost given up on this expensive toy.

Hope this helps anyone that's been looking for a solution.

peedub

09-18-2005, 07:07 AM

Good mod! :D

Do you still run the stock PSU fans as well as the 80mm?

I was thinking of removing the stock fans and ducting the 120mm fan through the back of the PSU to see if the airflow was enough.

I also found some 80 x 15mm fans which could fit in the gap between the heatsink and the HDDs.

I've still got my cardboard duct and it been peforming well. I did a 10hr render yesterday and temps peaked at 54C.

northernmonkey

09-19-2005, 04:19 AM

ZMAXDP00000022 think there might be too many zeros

(still having hard drive problems, think the drives duff)

peedub

09-19-2005, 04:35 AM

I lost a 200Gb hard drive last week and I think my DVD writer is going too. Coincidence or something to do with the ZMAXdp?

northernmonkey

09-19-2005, 05:15 AM

no way! what was the make and model of your 200gig, mine is the seagate ST3200826AS SATA.

what happened to it, was it making a clicking ping noise, also my dvd writer can take some time to read data from disks often failing on a file , the suddenly been able to read it again

peedub

09-19-2005, 02:37 PM

Seagate ST3200822AS SATA

I got beeping/chirping noises - don't realise it was the HDD until it was too late.

BIOS shows the hard drive but it freezes Windows when I try to mount it.

My DVD burner is a Sony DRU-720A with read problems. I'm going to see if it works in another PC before I try to send it back.

northernmonkey

09-20-2005, 04:55 AM

my dvd burner is the dr14a or something with a firmware mod to make it a dru510 (i think, not next to computer) so i can get firmware updates,

so thats two people, both with a seagate sata harddrive and a sony dvd burner having problems, hhhhhhmmmmmmm

From what i can tell we have both had ours built up the same amount of time as well.

peedub

09-24-2005, 11:36 AM

Okay, so I checked out my DVD burner on another PC and it seems to work fine. There are no problems copying files from a disc to the HDD with the burner installed on my old PC but the same task will hang the system on the ZMAXdp.

What do I do now?

northernmonkey

09-24-2005, 12:59 PM

well my hard drive only works in some orientations, it is definatly a power problem i think its is just the drive though.

going to install os on a different harddrive and find out whats up with the 200gig

peedub

09-24-2005, 01:25 PM

I gave up on my HDD and got a 300Gb Maxtor in an Icybox SATA external case.

I've emailed tech support where I bought my ZMAX from - hopefully I'll get a meaningful response from them soon.

Good luck with your HDD, hope you didn't lose anything too important.

iatacs19

09-24-2005, 01:36 PM

did you guys already say that you tried to cool the northbridge actively with the same results?

ivo

09-26-2005, 02:56 AM

peedub,
I thought having lost two seagate barracuda 200gb sata drives. the first few weeks they were running normal. then, they had the same clicking noise as describeb here in the forum. last, the were illfunctioning. What i realized was that they were running really hot. As known, the airflow in the case is not enough important, specially to cool two of these disks. so i changed both of them against an old maxtor 80gb ide drive, which i had left. now, the system is installed on this maxtor drive which is running much more cold. the other drives are also attached but outside the case which means that i can't close it anymore. so, the two seagate drives were in fact not broken but 'just' illfunctioning due to the heat load... :-)

iatacs19,
i did not try to cool the northbridge, but i put a 40mm papst fan (19db) on the chipset which lets it run at ~45C. Not bad as it had over 80C before.

i have the intention to make a mod like peedub did in means of the 12cm CPU fan. Whit all these things that i gently have hanging outside the case i might have to think about enlarging the case as well. next week and the week after, i will have more time to attack these problems... I will tell u guys.

regards...

...ivo

northernmonkey

09-26-2005, 06:59 AM

check out the new board, new coloured smilies.... ooooohhhh aaaahhhh

anyway

got my system up and running and it seems to be even hotter than before, i had a couple more random reboots, but it seems to be stable. what i need to know is how are you measuring the temperature of the southbridge (dont forget the northbridge is in the cpu)

I tried the fan duct from above the power supply down to the pci slot but the seal isnt that great and it only seams to be blowing out cold air not hot air. will post back with a picture if i get it working.

Only problem is that with starting back at uni in need a pc that isnt going to fry the hard drives every 2 months. im now looking in to buying a tiger k8w or other cheap opteron board.

ivo

09-26-2005, 07:36 AM

check out the new board, new coloured smilies.... ooooohhhh aaaahhhh

which board are you talking about??? :rolleyes:

northernmonkey

09-26-2005, 07:57 AM

sorry i meant the forum (as in message boards) ;)

ivo

09-26-2005, 08:00 AM

But i still do not know about which board you are speaking....EXACTLY???

northernmonkey

09-26-2005, 09:02 AM

the one you type the messages in when you hit reply, on the right.

its just eye candy but im impressed, they all used to be yellow im sure, i think :confused:
anyway the whole site looks nice and refreshed, unless im just seeing things again :p

iatacs19

09-26-2005, 09:13 AM

I thought the memory controller was on the CPU die, but the rest of the northbridge functions were left on the northbridge chip? Maybe I dreamt it all. :D

northernmonkey

09-26-2005, 11:26 AM

from my understanding, that is without checking on google to make sure i dont sound stupid :p , is that all the northbridge does is comunicate between the cpu memory and southbridge.

(checks google)

aaahhhh forgot the agp port, and the hypertransport links, yep its all about the hypertransport links, its amazing how much stuff you forget after you fall asleep ;)

Heli

10-01-2005, 12:56 PM

I read lot of posts concerning about the noise from the ZMaxdp. I had the same problem but after I upgraded to 2x Opteron 265 (dual core) I got the idea for a mod I just finished. After testing for hours on 100% load for all four cores I can say the max speed of my fans is 2000, one quarter of the time 1500.

Has anybody found a better solution till now?

peedub

10-01-2005, 01:42 PM

Have you got any pics of your mod?

I think I may have resolved my DVD burner issue. I have swapped the cables over so that the DVD drive is now plugged into IDE1 instead of IDE2.

northernmonkey

10-05-2005, 06:16 AM

ive given up on my mod for the moment, it made the case get hotter doh! and my girlfriend said "i dont think is a good idea to put card next to something that hot"

anyway what i have noticed is, all the pictures of the review or preproduction models, (when looking from the back) have the power plug on the bottom left, now mine has it on the bottom right.

just to confuse things a bit more the zmax-d2 has the plug on the bottom left like the dp preproduction model.

my theory, (feel free to flame me) is that the preproduction power supply was less noisy and less hotter than the production one and thats why all the review sites didnt mention the case getting really hot

Stormlord

10-05-2005, 03:24 PM

Actually, it will only work well if it is well made ;) You know, it's not always that easy to think a very good thermal design. You may cool some components well, and others less if you do not think it through properly.

ivo

10-06-2005, 04:08 AM

peedub,

now i will definitively make that mod. inspired by your bricolage i ordered two 12cm-fans. what specs does your fan have. i got yesterday two papst-12-cm-fans. they are running quiet, which means 18db. that is not bad but i don't know if it's powerfull enough. each has the capacity of 70m3 per hour. do you thingk this would be enough? or do i need one of these per processor?

peedub

10-07-2005, 03:53 PM

I'm using an Akasa 12cm Crystal Blue fan: -

56 CFm @ 1700 RPM - 29.74 dB(A)

I think the stock fans push about 35CFM each (Adda 70 x 25 mm) so you're not getting the same airflow with one 12cm fan but is more than adequate for cooling the CPUs if the CPU is connected outside of the case, i.e. there is nothing to obstruct the airflow from the heatsinks to the fan.

Post some pics of your mod - I'm still looking for a more permanent solution for mine.

ivo

10-08-2005, 04:44 AM

Post some pics of your mod - I'm still looking for a more permanenet solution for mine.
still working on my mod (also with cardboard). pictures of this first temporary mod might follow tomorrow. i hope that the 'box' around will follow soon...

in fact, i did quite an exact copy of your mod. i hope there are no copryright problems for that, :-). nonetheless, it is quiet. now, the loudest component is the fan of the graphiccard (ati 9600 series). As i do no overclocking of the gpu and it's ram, i disconnected it. then, it is running 'real' quiet.

By the way, where did u put the psu? I'm just asking because i think to have it replaced one day. the two integrated fans are, in some few moments, stil a bit noisy. Did you connect both of the three-pin-molex plugs comming out of the psu? would the psu die wihtout having its fans connected at all?

regards...

...ivo

peedub

10-08-2005, 12:19 PM

in fact, i did quite an exact copy of your mod. i hope there are no copryright problems for that, :-). nonetheless, it is quiet.

Imitation is the best form of flattery :D

It's quiet solution isn't it? The loudest things are still the PSU fans even though they are at idle. I've thought about unplugging them but haven't tried it out yet.

My ZMAXdp is in the workshop at uni at the moment. I working on a new mod but I have to sort out my DVD problem first. I don't want to make any permanent changes just in case I have to RMA it.

ivo

10-10-2005, 03:26 AM

The loudest things are still the PSU fans even though they are at idle. I've thought about unplugging them but haven't tried it out yet.

in fact, i unplugged them last night. i just wanted to look how much the PSU would get hot. but when the two molex-pins were unplugged both of the fans kept running. the difference is that they always run in the idle state, which means that the molex-pins just provide the fans with the information about the speed but not the fan's power. so, if unplugged => PSU fans always run idle.

regads...
...ivo

ReMeDy

10-16-2005, 01:15 AM

Anyone know if the MSI Wi-Fi Bluetooth card (http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MSI-BLUTOO&c=fr&pid=13fa0d700c1303b5fef076db280624ee311fb03400bbfeadc4fc6d14e48ddb7b) will work in the Mini-PCI slot on the Zmax?

Stormlord

10-17-2005, 03:37 PM

Remedy,

it says "only for msi ... blahblah" on the bottom of the page ;)

Basically, if it is a standard Mini PCI card, it might work - because it also uses an antenna for 2.4ghz frequency range.

einstein_pi

10-17-2005, 06:12 PM

What I would do for 4 dimm slots..../sigh

And not just on the DP- I'd even settle for a single socket solution.

Stormlord

10-27-2005, 04:24 PM

Einstein,

my guess is you are not seeing (m)any SFF barebones with 4 banks of memory because these are generally one of the first things to go when space limitations are concerned and choices need to be made as to what to leave on and what to leave off. Besides, D2 will be able to handle 2GB sticks. Do you need more than 4GB of memory? If yes, I'd recommend you to go for a full blown workstation - using e.g. Iwill DK88...

Regards,

David

einstein_pi

10-27-2005, 11:49 PM

I realize that, its unfortunate.

My applications require 4gb of ram...and a full size PCI-Ex or AGP video card. Size is of the essence however, and while I could use a 4U rackmount or mid-towers....I would really prefer SFF.

Unfortunatly we cannot justify 2gb sticks in our budget....not when we're a startup who needs to grow as fast as possible.

joho

11-01-2005, 11:33 AM

The ZMaxDP is delivered with one 90-deg SATA cable that fits the narrow space available. A 'standard' 90-deg connector does not fit that narrow space.
I browsed through a lot of stores (both local and on the web), but I can not find a SATA cable with a 90-degrees angle connector that is so narrow that it fits this small space.
Anyone found a store that sells these?

Stormlord

11-01-2005, 05:25 PM

Joho,

you could always use a straight connector, right? You cannot use two sata cables with angle in the same direction. I can get both left and right angle connector cables of 50,70 & 100cm + ofcourse the regular straight cables.

May I ask why you need another cable?

Kind Regards,

David / Iwill Benelux

northernmonkey

11-02-2005, 11:42 AM

Dont know if this helps but i got a right angle connector from a guy at the carboot/market when i thought mine was duff. It was in origionally packaging from a shuttle and was slightly smaller than the one supplied.

Also i have a staight one that is a lot shorter (plug) than a regular one that just fits in.

My advise go to a local computer fair/market etc its much easier to see what you are buying than the randomness that is the internet.

what country are you in?

Stormlord

11-03-2005, 12:30 PM

Belgium,

it's listed below my nick ;)

Regards,

David

joho

11-05-2005, 06:14 AM

Northernmonkey: I live in the Netherlands.

Stormlord: I have 2 harddisk in my ZMaxDP. The connectors are on the outer side, almost against the case. This space is so cramped that only angled (and narrow) connectors fit. But your remark does make me think; maybe I can turn the drives around and place them with the connectors in the other direction. That is , when the drive mounting points, and power cable lengths allow this.

3DBob

11-05-2005, 08:30 AM

Hi people,

I'm going to have a go at silencing the DP.

Firstly has anyone had experience with HE processors - and where can you buy them - they are never in stock! But at 55W instead of 89W they should put much less demand on those fans.

Secondly, has anyone looked at this fan for a mod (right at the bottom)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_YS_Tech_60.html

YS-TECH FD1238 120mm Fan - 4 Pin (FG-004-YS)

- Speed - 2800RPM
- Output - 125CFM
- Decibels - 40.5dBA
- Dimensions - 120x120x38

With a fan controller it might easily get under 35db in excess of 70CFM

it is big though.

3DBob

Stormlord

11-06-2005, 07:56 AM

Joho,

I never really had problems using standard SATA cables with the ZMAXDP. Only, ofcourse - if you want to use 2 SATA connectors on the motherboard that are angled in the same direction you will not be able to use them next to eachother. Normally the connectors on the HDDs are on the right side of the case with the front facing towards you.

Regards,

David

northernmonkey

11-07-2005, 06:19 AM

what country are you in?

ask a silly question get a load of people responding, i looked at the location and saw NL and in my wisdom and lack of knowlegde of states in the US, i thought you might be there.

joho: if your thinking of rotating the drives so they face the other way, it might work with two sata drives, i tried that first when building it only to find the molex for the ata drive fouled up aginst the graphics card. if i remember right you can only hold them in with on screw each side instead of two

3DBob: The HE opterons might stand for High Efficiency and only produce 55w but ive also noticied it means Highly Expensive compared to the standard model, checking froogle showed a couple with 246HE due in 1-4 days and before 17 nov. hope this helps

Stormlord

11-07-2005, 03:27 PM

HE's,

yeah - right. You should try the EEs if you can get them ;) They cost even more compared to the same speed grade 2xx... Really, HEs and EEs may use less power - but are they worth the pricedifference to you?

Regards,

David

northernmonkey

11-08-2005, 06:54 AM

EE = Extremely Expensive :D

saw some on ebay once, drooled a bit and moved on

mrbee

12-23-2005, 04:22 PM

...

I've already noted this problem to Titan @ Iwill Taiwan, and he also said he wasn't happy about the inconsistencies in the ZmaxDP manual. We should have that fixed in a new PDF available for download shortly. Looks like someone took the graphical schema from an engineering design or something.
...

Stormlord,

up to now, there seems no updated manual on the iwill website. Could you please tell us the link where the updated manual is available ?

Kind regards
Thomas

jsnorman

12-27-2005, 04:52 PM

3DBob: The HE opterons might stand for High Efficiency and only produce 55w but ive also noticied it means Highly Expensive compared to the standard model, checking froogle showed a couple with 246HE due in 1-4 days and before 17 nov. hope this helps

All true, but I have picked up a pair of 860HE's (dual core 1.6ghz parts) for 900 on ebay (for BOTH). You have to wait for a new HE model to come out, then look for the old HE model to go for nothing. The 8xx series are good targets too, because they are strictly OEM, and not much of a market for them.

pinnocchio

12-28-2005, 05:34 PM

I assume that was $900?

P

Stormlord

01-04-2006, 06:22 PM

mrbee,

I do not know IF there is an updated manual, please direct your questions at Iwill Taiwan, titanwu@iwill.net or denny@iwill.net - thank you

Kind Regards,

David

Sn@bE[KjP]666

01-05-2006, 05:13 PM

how much is the zmax-dp from iwill benelux?

Stormlord

01-06-2006, 02:24 PM

Hi,

enduserprice is 818 EUR VAT Incl (21%) + 12 EUR shipping for Germany (mainland, there is a surcharge for islands). If you want dealerprices or wish to order, please email me at david@iwill-benelux.com with your information. (dealerprices ofcourse only apply to IT dealers with valid business license & VAT number)

Kind Regards,

David / Iwill Benelux

Sn@bE[KjP]666

01-06-2006, 06:44 PM

thx
but its higher than i espected
wish i could afford one next time :-(

Jayllo

01-07-2006, 10:30 PM

The Doctor

01-07-2006, 10:38 PM

hey all,

Long thread. I have a ZMax sitting around. I lately got Opterons cheap and I was wondering does it REQUIRE ecc&registered memory? The manual claims it will take unbuffered?

Can someone verify? If it doesn't then does anyone have some ecc/reg FS?

As I understand it, that's a requirement of the Opteron CPU itself, rather than just the Zmax DP. I've only ever tried registered ECC in my Opteron machine.

Stormlord

01-09-2006, 03:10 PM

Jayllo,

is said above, the CPU requires REGISTERED memory, it needn't be ECC - but you'll find that most REGISTERED memories are.

Regards,

David / Iwill Benelux

Jayllo

01-10-2006, 11:56 AM

Will Registered PC2100 work well or should I definately go with 2700?

How much of a performance difference is there?

Thanks.

Stormlord

01-10-2006, 12:52 PM

Jayllo

01-10-2006, 01:56 PM

If possible go with two identical sticks (=dual channel) of PC3200 ECC REG, you can use PC2100 or PC2700 but they only run at lower clockspeed. In all instances the memory needs to be (ECC) REGISTERED.

Kind Regards,

David

I have 1.4ghz c0 opterons (Opteron 240s). If I use pc2100 are you saying the Opterons will run at a lower speed? I thought early edition Opterons only support pc2700/2100?

pc3200 is worth it??

amdoverclocker

01-10-2006, 10:11 PM

Can you buy the ZMAXd2 now? If so, where in US, if such a place exists.

Stormlord

01-11-2006, 07:10 AM

Jayllo,

ah - correct - early steppings only support PC2700 officially, but PC3200 will usually work and certainly you can always clock them down to PC2700 if required for stability reasons. The barebone supports PC2100/2700/3200 (ECC) registered memory.

Kind Regards,

David

PS.: the memory will at lower speed, not the cpu's, if you use PC2100 memory.

duc

01-13-2006, 05:10 AM

Can you buy the ZMAXd2 now? If so, where in US, if such a place exists.

Not sure about US, but the UK price is a staggering [url=http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=325327]

Jayllo

01-26-2006, 12:17 AM

Hi all.

Can Someone tell me what the setting for North Bridge to CK8 does?

It is a hyper transport setting from 800mhz to 1000mhz?

joho

01-30-2006, 01:55 PM

800 - 1000MHz is the data rate between (one of) the CPU's and the chipset.

Not all Opterons are created equal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opteron or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Opteron_microprocessors
I have 2 Opteron 246's in a ZMaxDP, which according to spec should run at 800, but I have no problems with settings at 1000. I don't know if it actually runs at 1000. How can you tell?

The Doctor

01-30-2006, 02:52 PM

CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php) might be of use to you in that.

Jayllo

02-01-2006, 12:13 AM

how much of performance increase is there? what is the speed based on?

amdoverclocker

02-02-2006, 03:27 PM

Stormlord, Any ideas on a zmaxd2 with a video card and scsi raid controller? I have been looking though some other threads and it looks like the SN26 doesnt work with SATA RAID card and a video card. Any comments?

amdoverclocker

02-04-2006, 12:38 AM

Sigh.. this is the ONLY thing holding me back from buying one of these. I hope this isnt a problem. :(

amdoverclocker

02-05-2006, 11:46 AM

Well I think Im just going to buy it. Im sure it will take some time to get it becuase its not a "normal" item. I have a feeling it will work, that or maybe Im just really hoping it will. :)

Stormlord

02-06-2006, 04:22 AM

Amdoverclocker,

I have not tested scsi controller on the D2, but it should work just fine. I can confirm the Iwill DK8EW motherboard does (it uses the same chipset) work with adaptec 4805 SAS controller.

Kind Regards,

David

amdoverclocker

02-06-2006, 09:56 AM

Okay. I hope your right. :D Im going to order it this weekend from avadirect.com They look to be a bit pricey but I cant find anywhere else in the US to buy it from. I called Iwill USA to see if they could give me a list of online resellers in the US that are selling that and they said Newegg could order it for me. Well I called Newegg and they said no. So.. Im stuck. Oh well.

amdoverclocker

02-06-2006, 12:00 PM

Avadirect sucks. They dont post on the site when they are out of a product. The zmaxd2 is out of stock and on backorder yet they say nothing about that unless you ask. Shaddy business if you ask me.

Stormlord

02-06-2006, 12:20 PM

AMDoverclocker,

any Iwill dealer should be able to order this if they want to. But they choose to carry or not carry certain products out of stock for themselves. We could ship to the US but that would only make it unescessarily difficult and expensive for you (freight to USA is quite expensive at

amdoverclocker

02-06-2006, 12:39 PM

Well nobody is answering in sale or tech support. Why is this such a pain in the ass to get something.. gerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

amdoverclocker

02-06-2006, 01:45 PM

Is today a holidy for the IwillUSA? I can not get anybody in any dept. This is the third time trying. Whats wrong with them? If anyone else made a product like this, I would go to them in a heartbeat after this experience.

Stormlord, can you give me a price for how much it would be if I baught it from you guys?

Jayllo

02-06-2006, 03:53 PM

amdoverclocker

02-06-2006, 05:36 PM

So I finaly got to talk to someone at iwillusa but it was worthless. They said they dont even have the parts in yet because its not available for public purchase yet. How crappy is that? I called in a week ago or so and they told me to contact newegg and order it through them. So no us reseller has any of them and wont for a while it sounds like.

aau

02-07-2006, 04:43 AM

A pair of questions on the ZMax.

Is anyone running 64bit Windows Server on it? The Nvidia drivers are only in BETA. I was wondering how stable it was.

Secondly, where can I get a pair of rubber rings (the ones that go on the heatsink screws)?

Thanks,
Jay

I tried running Server 2003 x64 on my ZMax but the lack of drivers was a problem. I installed the beta drivers for XP x64 but I was getting a BSOD. Nvidia seems disinterested in updating drivers for nforce3.

Jayllo

02-08-2006, 06:36 PM

I tried running Server 2003 x64 on my ZMax but the lack of drivers was a problem. I installed the beta drivers for XP x64 but I was getting a BSOD. Nvidia seems disinterested in updating drivers for nforce3.

Yes. I noticed the last update was in 04. Maximum suckage. Probalby busy wtih nforce4....

sigmaes

02-11-2006, 12:59 PM

does anyone know if the zmaxdp would work with two opteron 8xx. i know that iwill's site say it supports 2xx series

The Doctor

02-11-2006, 01:01 PM

I'd be very surprised if it didn't, given that 8xxs will run in single and dual processor configurations on other motherboards. My own single-processor SK8N system is running an Opteron 844 very happily.

iatacs19

02-11-2006, 01:28 PM

aau

02-13-2006, 01:56 AM

Yes. I noticed the last update was in 04. Maximum suckage. Probalby busy wtih nforce4....

I've heard some nforce4 drivers work fine on nforce3, but i haven't had time to mess around with it. There are remix drivers available the combine known working drivers from different releases.

does anyone know if the zmaxdp would work with two opteron 8xx. i know that iwill's site say it supports 2xx series

I know for sure it works with 846 HEs.

jsnorman

02-13-2006, 09:57 PM

Man, I never thought they would price it so high. When I bought my zmaxDP I thought $599 was a lot, but $1200 is making it not worth it at all. I do appreciate the technology showcase, but at this price point I think you are better off getting a Shuttle sn26p and putting an AMD X2 in there and it supports SLi if you need. I don't think many people are going QUAD-core with the zmaxD2s anyway. Oh well, it was interesting speculating all this time. ;)

I was pretty shocked at this price too. Bad planning/budgeting or something happened.

If anyone from iwill is listening ...

I bought one of the earlier zxmaxdp's at $700, fried two harddrives, and ultimately cooked the motherboard and one of my opteron 246he's due to lack of adequate cooling/fan control problems as discussed earlier. I was not angry at iwill because it was such an incredible feat there were bound to be problems with the first try...though I do wish a replacement mb was an available part no. at a reasonable price (hint hint).

Still, when I heard about the D2 here I decided immediately to buy it. Early reports seemed to indicate pricing in the $8xx range, which was pricey but still understandable. I bought 2 dual core opterons and they sat around for months waiting for the D2 release. I was incredibly disappointed when I saw that the chassis alone was >$1,200!!!?? Definitely not a good customer relations move, though I am sure they are trying to recover their costs, and low volume products are always expensive, customer expectations and disappointment are definitely more expensive, especially when the beta version of the product had notable problems and this seemed much like a "corrected" and slightly improved version not a major rengineering effort.

Just in case it isn't clear, I dropped a heck of a lot more money on my dp than $1200 and would do it again, but for the fact I feel taken advantage of as I suspect will most dp purchasers having bought a product that had too many problems, then watching the "fixed" version come out the door at almost double the price.

My 842HEs are now sitting in a ylang ylang cube with the awesome Asus k8n-dl motherboard, and a top of the line super expensive 600watt ps for a grand total cost (including the CPUs!!) of less than I would have spent for the barebone d2. Sigh.

amdoverclocker

02-13-2006, 11:56 PM

Anyone found the zmaxd2 in the US yet?

jhaislet

02-14-2006, 01:08 AM

Who cares really...sounds like a $1200 toaster oven that kills your equipment in the process...

Some products should just slink away & die a quiet death! :zzz:

amdoverclocker

02-14-2006, 08:47 AM

Who cares really...sounds like a $1200 toaster oven that kills your equipment in the process...

Some products should just slink away & die a quiet death! :zzz:

That was helpful.

The orginal zmaxp's were the toasters.

Stormlord

02-18-2006, 08:20 AM

sigmaes,

8xx should work fine, but they are generally much more expensive than 2xx models.

others,

D2 should have better cooling properties in that it has a more gradual and better thermalcontrol implementation than DP - but some things need to be considered (thermally) with ANY small formfactor barebones (also Shuttles, low profile racks etc). Some things just will not work (e.g. 2x285 + 2x7800GTX and 2 hdd will just not work both thermally, physically and electrically). The product manager was restricted by having to use the same case again ($$$ case molds = expensive !!! $$$). This did not leave many posilbilities (e.g. using another PSU formfactor or larger fan was probably out of the question design wise) - alas... The problem with DP and D2 is mainly a volume issue and that causes the high pricing. AFAIK, less than 1000 units were produced for DP. It takes months of engineering for a team to make such a product. You can imagine that influences the cost of the actual product. I could imagine cost could come down a lot if the productionvolumes (and thus demand) would be much higher.

ZMAXD2 does not cost $1200 in the USA. Here in Belgium we sell it recommend enduser listprice 1004 EUR VAT Incl. (which is approx $1200), but you have to keep in mind we have 21% VAT here which is included as are recuperation taxes (environment tax). The price excl. VAT for export outisde EU is 829.75 EUR (+ shipping). EU citizens will pay Belgian VAT unless they have a valid VAT number. Dealerprices are lower still ofcourse. Prices in Asia or the USA should be lower because of lower freightcost from Taiwan to USA then to Europe and much lower VAT or salestax.

Regards,

David

The Doctor

02-18-2006, 08:26 AM

sigmaes,

8xx should work fine, but they are generally much more expensiver than 2xx models.

Except on eBay, where they seem to routinely go for a song... that's why I have an 844 in my SK8N, it only cost me

jsnorman

02-18-2006, 08:45 PM

D2 should have better cooling properties in that it has a more gradual and better thermalcontrol implementation than DP -

Yes, this is why I waited so long for the D2 instead of taking my opterons to another board. There was actually very little that needed to be done, but little heat problems in a small box and two processors = bad.

The product manager was restricted by having to use the same case again ($$$ case molds = expensive !!! $$$).

This I do not understand. If using the same case saved $$$, then the price of the D2 should have been LESS than the DP, not almost twice as much. I know the 2200 pro chipset adds some extra, but really how did the price get that high when the only real redesign features were the chipset implementation and the power supply? The price should have been the same or less...unless of course iwill made the decision to fold its SUNK cost (loss) on the DP into the price on the D2 - which if they did is a classic pricing mistake (e.g., google "sunk cost").

The problem with DP and D2 is mainly a volume issue and that causes the high pricing. AFAIK, less than 1000 units were produced for DP.

If Shuttle had put its first SFF out with a $1,200 price tag, heck even $700 (what the DP was originally as I recall) SFF, how many do you think they would have sold? And here is where iwill's pricing logic really fails - at $1,136 (current price in USA from all vendors, not including tax where applicable and shipping) I doubt they will even sell as many units as they did the DP, and then this whole program will probably be shelved. If they instead had come out with DP like pricing, and sell at cost to folks who bought the alpha units (the DP I mean), I bet they would have tripled or better the volume and improved cost structure. Oh well.

ZMAXD2 does not cost $1200 in the USA.

That is very interesting, based on your info we should be able to buy for well under $1,000 US, but every dealer I have found here either won't carry it or prices it at $1,136 or higher. Seems like a major lack of dealer support to me, which again should be indicative to iwill about the pricing strategy.

Jayllo

02-19-2006, 12:06 PM

Does anyone have the newest drivers for the wireless on zmaxdp? I have the ones off of Iwill.net but I don't think they are very good. The network utilization is very low, even with a few machines on it. The drivers are from 2003.

The chipset company seems to have been eaten. Nowhere to be found.

Also, I think Iwill made the price high because their marketing/sales division is no good.

Or maybe it is just price gouging for now?

Stormlord

02-20-2006, 03:30 PM

Stormlord

02-20-2006, 03:43 PM

JSnorman,

what you do not seem to understand that even when the case mold is re-used it stil costs a LOT of money (think 6 digit $ numbers... in case you didn't realise it: yes that is what that costs) and the ZMAXDP has NEVER been profitable, it won't likely even be profitable even when it is priced at $2000 if it does not sell more than ZMAXDP did. I guess all Iwill is trying to do is increase the price to atleast recuperate some of the cost. If you are comparing shuttle to ZMAXDP/D2 - sorry, but you are in quite a different league here: shuttle likely has >75% of the SFF barebone market, the volumes they ship compared to the ZMAXDP or ZMAXD2 or MUCH MUCH higher (I'm not just talking ten fold - it's more, and also Shuttle reuse case designs - they know why aswell , but due to their volume the cost per case for them is MUCH lower...) . If I say that ZMAXDP was made in <1000 pieces that SHOULD say enough. If I tell you that designing a server/workstation bi-processor motherboard generally takes a team about 9 months to design (provided nothing goes wrong) - that should also give you a general idea about the cost and why they need to make it more expensive to get atleast part of their money back. ZMAXDP and D2 are much more of a technology show off than anything else, they do not make Iwill any money - what does is mainly their OEM business (like the firewalls they are making for some major brands - I mean the yellow, blue and silver ones ;) ). Incase you are wondering, this is also Iwill:
http://www.inetsystems.com/index.htm

PS.: I am not saying that increasing the price is a good commercial thing to do - but they must have done for a reason. You should note that also some of the components like the chipset are more expensive now than the ZMAXDP. So, you cannot just make a simple comparison.

Stormlord

02-20-2006, 04:03 PM

AMDoverclocker,

the D2 was only available in limited quantity uptil now - so maybe Iwill USA decided not to pick up volume sales yet. I can deliver to the USA, but likely shippingcosts would be quite high and I'm sure you should be able to get much better a price in the USA. You can ask Titan if he can help you with this, he is ZMAXD2 productmanager infact (titanwu@iwill.net). Maybe he can have some regional sales help you to obtain it.

As for price if we had to ship it to you, that would be 1004 EUR - 21% VAT (you do not pay VAT for export) + shippingcosts + export customs documents cost + maybe some duties levied by US customs.

I'm guessing with freight and customs costs it would end up about as expensive as VAT Incl within Europe... (that is somewhere between $1000-1200) I can make an exact cost for you (barring any costs your local US customs & government might charge) if you provide me with your shippingaddress (send email) to calc shipping.

Kind Regards,

david@iwill-benelux.com

amdoverclocker

02-20-2006, 04:18 PM

Humm maybe I will waite a little while longer to see if anyone like newegg has them in the US. Thanks!

amdoverclocker

02-20-2006, 05:07 PM

Just wondering, any testing done with a video card plus scsi/sata raid controller installed?

amdoverclocker

02-21-2006, 11:49 AM

Gand

02-21-2006, 12:27 PM

Avadirect can order them now. They are still going to be $1150 or so, probally more. My one holdback is the ability to run a non-video card in the second slot. It looks like its setup to be 16x and 4x. Thats not going to work well. Most raid controllers that Im looking at are 8x. :(

What kind of hard drive config would tempt you to run an 8x PCIe controller in a case this small? It just seem very not practical.

On the side note, the new BIOS for the DP says it supports dual cores and rev E6 Opterons, but has a nice little note at the bottom

Special note Be care of thermal when you useing DUAL core CPU.

No, those are not my typos. Has anyone tried the 250s in this beast, and if so, how much more/less heat/noise does this add/remove. Any input much appreciated. I am currently on a pair of 244s and considering an upgrade. Worst case scenarion I am looking at paying the premium for the HE series to keep the beast quiet. Any input much appreciated.

flycatcher

02-21-2006, 01:27 PM

Just wondering, any testing done with a video card plus scsi/sata raid controller installed?

Just out of curiousity, why do you need to install a raid controller when there's already RAID0/1,0+1 on-board?

amdoverclocker

02-21-2006, 01:45 PM

I am very demanding on storage. I am going to use an external enclosure for scsi. I hoped to use this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16816117005

aau

02-21-2006, 06:42 PM

I am very demanding on storage. I am going to use an external enclosure for scsi. I hoped to use this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16816117005

The card will physically fit in the slot, but you should contact Intel to see if it will work at reduced speed in a pcie slot that runs at x4 electrically.

edit: :o never mind, I read in another thread the card has been shown to work in some x4 slots. Somebody w/access to a zmaxd2 should stick a cheap x1 card like usb or nic in the second slot and see what happens.

aau

02-21-2006, 06:47 PM

Jayllo,

to my knowledge there are no newer drivers. Also, Iwill uses two different MiniPCI cards in their barebones (InProcomm and VIA). Basically, you should be able to use most miniPCI WLAN cards, but not all have been tested.

Personally, I have also used Intel miniPCI cards with success on some of the barebones - but I haven't tested it on all of them.

Regards,

David
I took a look at the wireless card on my zmaxdp. Is the antenna detachable from the card? And which of these Intel adapters (http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/wireless/prowireless_mobile.htm) will work? I'm especilly interested in the 3945abg.

martinbogo

02-22-2006, 08:03 PM

While the web spec's out the second PCI-X slot at only 4x, I believe this might not match the final production hardware. Iwill has closed for the day, but I'll call them tomorrow and confirm if this is the case.

Reason I say this, is I just popped in a Promise FastTrak 2300 into the case, and it seems to be working correctly. I'll be laying down a drive format in a moment.

-Martin

martinbogo

02-22-2006, 08:06 PM

Oh, and it seems that the market price for the ZMAX D2 is around $699. Given the massive improvements (nforce4, two full memory controllers, PCI-X, improved Compact PCI wireless card) it's worth the $100 bump. I purchased mine wholesale.

-Martin

amdoverclocker

02-22-2006, 08:09 PM

Where did you get yours at? Avadirect.com wants $1150. :( Bastards.

martinbogo

02-24-2006, 05:02 PM

I have a direct relationship with iwill USA. They have none left in stock at the moment, all of the units that were shipped to the US have been distributed to the OEM's.

-Martin

Stormlord

02-25-2006, 06:58 AM

Martinbogo,

the layout for the PCIe (NOT! PCI-X, that is a 64 bit PCI slot - an error which is often made!) is 16x / 4x according to my info and Iwill's own website:

http://www.iwill.net/product_2.asp?p_id=105&sp=Y

There is no doubt about this, it is repeatedly stated on both the Iwill official site and various documents / feedback from Titan that the second slot has 4 lanes effectively.

I have not confirmed scsi/raid controllers on ZMAXD2, but they work fine on DK8EW for example. There is no real reason for them not to work unless: 1) the PCIe is not properly implemented in BIOS to handle storage controllers, as is usually the case with some desktop motherboards - but according to Titan that -should- work (barring any specific compatibility issues). 2) said controller requires a minimum amount of lanes to be present (usually 4 or 8 depending on the product)

Also, the chipset only has 20 lanes effectively.

aau,

there is no official test performed, but the antenna is ofcourse detachable. As for a+b+g dual band cards - they might not work as the a standard uses another frequency band (5Ghz) and the antenna needs to support both frequency bands. The 802.11a standard is not popular at all out here. We have however used intel's b+g cards before without problems on some of Iwill's barebones, but Iwill did not qualify or test these cards officially and neither did they qualify with dual band cards. Infact dual bands usually require another antenna.

Martinbogo,

it is not wise to list (approximate) wholesale prices knowing that there are freightcharges to be involved and generally endusers also have to pay VAT. This generates hopes for endusers that they will actually be able to get them at said price. In some countries in the EU for example VAT and importduties are well over 20% total + shipping (generally >$100 per barebone for EU if you fly them in). So clearly, if you add VAT and shipping + a profit margin of distributor and or dealer you'll usually end up quite a bit higher than that.

AMDoverclocker,

that could be about correct for enduser prices in the USA, depending on the VAT percentage.

Martinbogo,

could be correct - they might also have ltd. quantities allocated per salesregion. All in all last production was not very large. (AFAIK < 100 pieces or so) - they told me ltd. quantity available last time I ordered one.

Regards,

David

amdoverclocker

02-25-2006, 07:26 AM

LOL So cost + profit of sending something within the US is $450. I need to get in that business. Sales tax plus shipping could be $100. Thats still a profit of $350, 44%. Good ole suppy and demand for you. Or a bunch of greedy bastards, you make the call.

Stormlord

02-25-2006, 07:54 AM

amdoverclocker

02-25-2006, 08:22 AM

amdoverclocker,

you do not read very well. VAT In Belgium is 21% alone. Margins of 8-25% are not uncommon in the IT sector for dealers. You make the calc. Besides, I did not say $699 was accurate & that amount may also depend on volume and the market. I do not know what Iwill USA is charging, and we are not from the USA we import directly from Taiwan to Europe.

Besides, do not forget RMA and such. If a return is required we need to cover the costs to send back the malfunctioning hardware aswell. It is not as black an white as you put it.

LOL Why are you talking about VAT? That has absolutly nothing to do with what Im talking about. He got it from Iwill USA, nothing to do with Europe. Plus, Im talking about the resellers that are charging $1,150 for it, not you guys.

lionel57000

02-25-2006, 06:31 PM

where is it possible to find it, at the best price ?

700$ for it , i agree

1200, it s harder ...

and does it run with opteron 285 , and x1900xtx ? :confused:

Stormlord

02-26-2006, 08:52 AM

Lionel,

285 definately not recommended for SFF.

X1900 not either, if the poweconsumption and it can physically fit = ok, but I doubt the PSU will be able to handle and you might get in thermal problems with such a config.

Recommend max. 7800GT and 265/270 mainly for thermal and powerconsumption reasons.

Btw.: Lionel, you can order it from us - but forget about $700 (dollars) in Europe. That is less than what the thing costs us (at distribution cost) with freight included.

AMDoverclocker,

as I said : I do not know what their freightcharges are, where they buy them from and what their price is at Iwill USA. So it may depend on that.
I can't make their bill for them. I only know what the thing costs us and what we ask for it. Our enduserprice is almost $1200 but that includes 21% VAT (Belgian VAT) and import from Taiwan via DHL to Europe. Ofcourse our dealerprice is lower, that would be only normal (it is excl. VAT and our enduserprice is the recommended enduserprice for our market). To obtain dealerpricing you need a valid VAT number and have to be an IT dealer or reseller. For export outside EU there is no VAT, only export document charges and possible import contums duties (and local VAT) if applicable in your country. Besides, pricing may also vary based on quantity. Ofcourse we make priceoffers for larger qty orders aswell.

Regards,

David

bilbois

03-24-2006, 04:49 PM

is it possible to replace the fans in the power supply with higher quality ones. IE less noisy one.

Sn@bE[KjP]666

03-24-2006, 05:05 PM

what are the specs of the stock fans?

bilbois

03-24-2006, 05:12 PM

not really sure I think they use noisy 60mm fans in the zmaxdp and if I could track down nicer fans that move more air and produce less noise that would be great.

Sn@bE[KjP]666

03-24-2006, 05:17 PM

they look bigger at pic 2cpu gal (http://www.2cpu.com/gallery/ZMAXdp/zmaxdp_043)

bilbois

03-24-2006, 05:24 PM

Well I have that exact one(literally) and they look like 60's I just have not measured them
and was hopeing for everyone's knowledge to flow :)

lionel57000

03-25-2006, 01:38 AM

Lionel,

285 definately not recommended for SFF.

in single core, is it right for 254 ?

SpongeBob

03-25-2006, 02:21 AM

The fans are made by Adda (model # AD0712UB - A7BGP), and their dimensions are 70x70x25mm with the GP standing for "Great Performance". Although, it could be LH for "Loud as Heck". The specs for this specific model are not on the Adda website, although a similar model was there (A76GL = low noise model). I have emailed them for the specs of the GP as I would really like to know the air flow and noise level.
In the meantime, I took the fans out of the power supply and just for the heck of it compared the noise and air flow to another 70mm fan I have that is rated for ~34 cfm @ 4200 RPM and 32 dBA. Of course, their was no comparison on noise, but the airflow from the Adda completely and utterly drawfed that of the other fan ... great performance indeed. Nevertheless, I still plan on replacing the fans in the PS with something quieter. I have also added two other quiet fans (70 and 60 mm) to the opposite side of the heatsink (see pic). I am not a big fan (no pun intended) of making mods outside the case, so I have tried to limit my ideas to inside the very limited space. One day, maybe just maybe, I can get these dual 265s under 70 C and relatively quiet when I start up Prime95 on each core. ;)

Sn@bE[KjP]666

03-25-2006, 05:56 AM

good idea with the additional fans
what formfactor is the psu?
as mentioned earlier in this thread you need a ssi compatible psu and they are nowhere to find
maybe pcp&p builds us one ;-)

bilbois

03-25-2006, 11:17 AM

thats exactly what I want to do. I have no problem buying some expensive fans to replace the stock one for some peace and quite. I understand iwill useing ones that produce more noise since they need to compromise price/performance/reliability.

Sn@bE[KjP]666

03-25-2006, 04:15 PM

i dont think the price of fans iwill is thinkin about in such an expensive bb
my priority is on cooling and low power consumption
the idea in my head is cutting a hole in the front for a fan to get airflow from the front to the back and cooling for the hdds

bilbois

03-26-2006, 12:59 AM

SpongeBob were the 70's 2pin or 3 pin ?

Jayllo

03-26-2006, 01:09 AM

Yes, what are the best silent fans?

I was quoted the 240EE opterons @ 220 shipped (1 pair). I'm trying to lower the noise as well.

SpongeBob

03-26-2006, 01:38 AM

SpongeBob were the 70's 2pin or 3 pin ?

The fans for the PS are 3 pin, but the connector is different than the 3 pin connectors found on most fans (see pic). Thus, the fans connect to an outlet inside the supply, and then a wire (one per fan) with standard 3 pin connector runs down from inside the PS housing to the connectors on the mainboard.

I think I may have finally achieved my goal of a quieter, cooler Zmax, and I am testing now. I'll post pictures and details if it doesn't burst into flames. :D

bilbois

03-26-2006, 10:30 AM

Hmm so if only one wire runds down for monitoring and speed control I wonder if you could just direct connect regular 3pin fans to the motherboard and just rout all three wires out of the power supply

audioaficionado

03-26-2006, 11:12 AM

This will allow you to hook a fan up to the power supply while monitoring it from a motherboard fan header.

http://www.svc.com/3pinto4pinad1.html
http://store1.yimg.com/I/svcompucycle_1891_31552687

bilbois

03-26-2006, 11:34 AM

from the way SpongeBob describes it that would not even be needed, I just don't know if the opening(s) would be big enough for 3 instead of 1 wire to pass through.

SpongeBob

03-26-2006, 12:58 PM

When I mentioned 1 wire per fan running out of the PS in my last post, that might have been misleading. Sorry. 3 wires (white, black and red) come out of the fan itself and connect to a header inside the power supply. From that header, 3 wires per fan (black, red, yellow) run out of the PS housing and down to the motherboard header for fan monitoring and speed control. All of the wires coming out of the PS run through the same hole on the bottom of the housing, so the opening is plenty big.

bilbois

03-26-2006, 01:33 PM

Got it guess just need to do a wire splice for whatever new quite fans I can get, 70mm are much less comon I have used these before http://store.yahoo.com/svcompucycle/fan-al7015.html
and they were pretty silent and still move some air but not sure if it will be enough.

SpongeBob

03-26-2006, 03:47 PM

Well, I thought I would conclude my weekend foray into the thermal properties of the Zmax. From my previous post, you can see that I was initially thinking of replacing the PS fans with something quieter. However, as I looked at potential replacements, either the fans didn't move near enough air, or they moved a moderate amount of air but were what I deemed to be too loud. I soon found myself wishing for the 100 cfm @ 32 dBA specs of 120 mm fans. However, a 120mm fan is just way too big to fit inside the confines of the Zmax, right? Well, not exactly. ;)

I knew that to fit a 120mm fan inside meant that I would have to break my golden rule of no mods outside the case, but Mick Jagger once told me that "You can't always get what you want". Thus, I continued. To make a long story short, I pushed the PS back by ~25mm to make room for the 120mm fan which now sits between the PS and the backside of the dual heatsinks (see ZmaxMod1.JPG). I simply bought longer screws (#6-32 x 1") and nylon spacers which I then cut to the desired length (see ZmaxMod2.JPG). Overall, the compromise of the PS sticking out the back of the Zmax an additional 25mm is one that I can definitely live with. As I displayed in an earlier post, I also have a 70 mm and 60mm fan mounted to the front side of the heatsinks to further help with the flow across the fins. I could still add another fan, perhaps a 60 or 70mm, to blow from left to right the across the HDs and help with the intake of cooler air from the outside. However, we'll see if that is if that is necessary in the future. Also, the original loud yet robust fans in the Zmax PS have been completely removed from the system and mounted in my bathroom for drying my hands. :D

Now for testing, I put all the components in and replaced the cover. My system specs are below:

2 x Opteron 265s (CCBWE)
1 x 10k 74GB Raptor
1 x 250 GB Maxtor
1 x eVGA 6600GT
1 x Benq 1655 DVD burner

I started a Prime95 stress test on each core and also ran a bash script which continuously copied a 2GB directory on one HD to the other HD while also browsing the web and just general usage. The max temps for the CPUs were 65 C and the HDs never got above 50 C, and the case does feel cooler in general. The loudest sound coming from the the case now is the cooler on the video card, and I have never been so happy to hear that deep rumble coming from the WD Raptor HD. So I would guess the overall noise to be ~ 35 dBA under full load and even quieter when idle, but I sure didn't build this box to sit idle. Overall, perhaps it was a weekend well spent, and I know my future grandkids will one day thank me for trying to preserve some of my hearing. :p

Finally, I have decided to name the thing "Phekadion" in honor of the black shark (hey it does look like a shark with that wireless antenna/dorsal fin on top).

Stormlord

03-27-2006, 12:20 PM

Sn@be,

the PSU is proprietary, not a standard PSU.

Lionel,

i'd recommend not to use anything above 250 or 270 with 2 harddiscs installed and/or a higher end videocard. Much of it depends on those because:

a) they both generate heat
b) they both draw power
c) the harddiscs are sitting directly above the chipset (ever wondered why titan decided to cool the chipset actively on ZMAXD2, well - here is your answer, also the nforce 4 does run hotter)

Regards,

David

SpongeBob

03-27-2006, 01:54 PM

I just heard back from ADDA with the complete specs on the Zmax PS fans. Basically, the fans move ~50 cfm @ 5000 rpms. So, if I were going to replace them and not make any other mods, I wouldn't feel comfortable using anything significantly worse (in terms of max air flow) unless my system ran uncharacteristically cool in the first place. For those interested, download it here (http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/442853a5_fe54/bc/My+Documents/ADDAFanSpecs.PDF?bfLhFKEBjPnDoPbz).

Concerning the chipset on the Zmax, Stormlord makes a good point. The passively cooled chipset does sit right beneath those heat producing HDs, but I have found that there is just enough space to add perhaps a 60x60x15mm fan at the end of the video card. The fan is then able to pull in cool air from the outside using the vents that run along the side of the Zmax and blow it from left to right across the chipset and HDs. It may not be the most robust solution, but it does help.

Stormlord, I second your suggestion to Iwill concerning the 12cm fan, and I think Iwill missed a good opportunity here (maybe they should promote you :D). I was able to fit a 12cm fan into my Zmax without too much hassle at all, so I don't understand what problems they could have had ... of course I know nothing of the new D2 design, so I speak in ignorance here. The fans in the Zmax PS are 25mm thick and the 12cm fan I used to replace them is also 25mm thick. So, no real modification had to be done. It literally cost me a total of $14 to do it, and from the outside its virtually indistinguishable from an unmodified Zmax yet provides better and quieter cooling in my experience.

duc

03-27-2006, 05:05 PM

but I have found that there is just enough space to add perhaps a 60x60x15mm fan at the end of the video card.

I think someone else mentioned that some time back. If you're using an ATi X800 series graphics card (or similar sized) it is actually possible to suspend a 90mm fan in that space. I noticed improved HDD & chipset cooling due to the fact that more air is forced into that area.

shuck

04-03-2006, 11:05 PM

DaveB

04-10-2006, 06:55 AM

I have a pair of Opteron 240s in mine and it runs HOT. I turned the smartfan threshold up to 64 and the CPUs run at 60-65C with the fans at 3k RPM. The other equipment in the case is a 36GB Raptor and a GForce FX 5200 video card. Does this seem abnormally hot?

Ryan
Yes. I'm running dual 265s OC'd to 2 GHz and mine tend to run at just about 50C. I've set the fan control at 50C. I have an ATI AIW X800XT and added a slot cooler in the unused PCI slot. Without that, the GPU goes to 90C under load and the hard drive goes to 65C. With it, the GPU never goes much over 80C under load and the hard drive stays at 45C or so. The Slot cooler keeps the little toaster box from overheating.

shuck

04-12-2006, 10:56 AM

That's cool - I'll try one of those and see if it helps out. The HD doesn't get that hot, it just seems to be the CPUs. I think part of it is the SledgeHammer core is 1.5V vs the Troy's 1.3ish. I'd really like to find a pair of 242 Troys - I think that would be one of the best mixes of cheap/low heat.

Jayllo

04-15-2006, 05:31 PM

From what I read, the heat dissipation is the same for Troys and .09.

Why is that? Is getting a EE processor worth the extra mile over the HE? I am starting to get pissed off at the noise.

I have a pair of 240s(c0) and a Matroxp650 + raptor . The fan setting is at 50c. Any ideas how to lower the heat?

DaveB

04-15-2006, 07:07 PM

I have a pair of 240s(c0) and a Matroxp650 + raptor . The fan setting is at 50c. Any ideas how to lower the heat?
I don't think there's any way to get the heat out of these things without a slot cooler. My hard drive was hot to the touch through the floppy opening before I put in the slot cooler. Now, it hardly feels warm. Plus the AGP card runs a lot cooler. I had a Shuttle box a while back, and since that was quite a bit cheaper, I cut a hole in it for an extra fan. But I'm not cutting up a $500 box! :eek:

Jayllo

04-16-2006, 12:30 AM

I actually don;t have a card reader/floppy drive. I leave it open for a vent (I know about dust). Last I was quoted Opteron 240EEs are 213.50 a piece.

Talk about suckage. Paying top dollar for an old stepping/process. I'm hoping socket AM2 lowers the price on the HEs.

Seems like HE dual cores are the best value.

DaveB

04-16-2006, 09:22 AM

Too bad you missed my 246HEs. I sold them here a couple of weeks ago for only $265 shipped for the pair.

I had the card reader/floppy slot open when my hard drive got to 65C. That's how I was able to touch it and see it was really that hot. With the slot cooler, I now have a floppy installed and it's still nice and cool in there.

a94cobra

04-24-2006, 10:08 PM

Has anyone used the Nforce4 drivers on the zMAXdp? What were the results?

a94cobra

04-25-2006, 11:38 PM

shuck

04-28-2006, 09:19 AM

SpongeBob

04-28-2006, 10:53 AM

Well, I installed the slot cooler and it has helped a little. But it has confirmed my hypothesis that almost ALL of the heat was coming from the CPUs. My Raptor HD was only warm to the touch before and now it's about the same (highest I ever saw in SmartFan was 30C) but the video card does run cooler. Overall, the air that the slot cooler is exhausting is not that warm (especially compared to what comes out of the power supply).

Is there a way to try undervolting the CPUs?

Hi Shuck. That is a very good observation, and the same one that I arrived at myself. The CPU heatsinks simply need an increased air flow, which is easier said than done. The stock fans can indeed provide such an airflow, but unfortunately that comes at the expense of sounding like a vacuum cleaner. At acceptable noise levels, the airflow that the stocks fans provide is pretty anemic due to their size. Therefore, at least for me, more intricate mods (using larger, quieter fans) were necessary to achieve the desired cooling and noise levels. I have since sold my modded ZmaxDP, and now plan to mod a new red one for myself. Cheers.

Gand

04-28-2006, 12:19 PM

Also, I only purchased one stick of Corsair mem for mine. Forgot about the more sticks equals faster access. Someone also mentioned some stuff about dual channel sticks being just as good. Is that true?

Indeed, you want two identical sticks to benefit from dual-channel memory configuration. Depending on your application, you might not notice a difference.

DaveB

04-28-2006, 05:51 PM

Well, I installed the slot cooler and it has helped a little. But it has confirmed my hypothesis that almost ALL of the heat was coming from the CPUs. My Raptor HD was only warm to the touch before and now it's about the same (highest I ever saw in SmartFan was 30C) but the video card does run cooler. Overall, the air that the slot cooler is exhausting is not that warm (especially compared to what comes out of the power supply).

Is there a way to try undervolting the CPUs?
Is your Raptor in the top of the two hard drive mounting locations? I have a 200GB Seagate sitting there and with the slot cooler installed my current temps are:

CPU1 - 39C
CPU2 - 40C
GPU - 60C

The fans are on low speed (1814RPM) since I have the threshold set at 50C in the BIOS. Under 4 instances of Prime95 (4 x 100% load), the CPUs only barely touch 49C to 50C.

http://i3.tinypic.com/wmjbqf.jpg

SpongeBob

04-28-2006, 06:16 PM

DaveB

04-28-2006, 06:50 PM

It's just an ordinary $10 slot cooler.

http://i3.tinypic.com/wbubo0.jpg

a94cobra

04-28-2006, 09:55 PM

Does anyone know where the motherboard temp sensor is located. I was just curious, I havn't got my system temp to come off 25c. Ever. I am using SpeedFan 4.28.

Where do you find HDD temp?

DaveB

04-28-2006, 10:10 PM

Everest Home shows the hard drive temp but has some other issues. Plus the free version is not available for download anymore. The system temp never changes, must be a fake sensor.

http://i3.tinypic.com/wqr6fb.jpg

a94cobra

04-28-2006, 10:50 PM

Been trying some tests. Using different 'helper' fans. This is one fan I liked very much in my tower PC. I taped it to the back of the powersupply. This is a double wide fan and moves tons of air. I would almost say twice the air of the zMAXdp without it. I used some of the smaller single wides units and they never moved this much air. Here is a couple pics of it attached.

Exhaust fan (http://www.geocities.com/94cobra.geo/pics/100_3941a.JPG)

Exhaust fan 2 (http://www.geocities.com/94cobra.geo/pics/100_3942a.JPG)

I've got this guy running BOINC (seti) with two work units processing to heat it up a little. Fans spin up on high. The processors run around 42 and 44. I was wanting to see if the system was heating up. If the system sensor is worthless, the only other sensor would be my hard drive. It is suppose to have temp in the SMART settings but SpeedFan doesn't show it.

Hey I just noticed we had serial numbers not too far apart.

Jayllo

05-02-2006, 06:37 PM

Gand

05-02-2006, 08:40 PM

What is the best wireless card to use with this box? I don't like the stock InnoproComm. It seems to suck. Low reception and a lot of lag while using applications.

Am I setting something up incorrectly or am I right in believing the MINIPCI card on this machine sucks?

Any good recommendations for a new card? Thanks.

I can second the bundled card sucking opinion. Consider some alternatives, depending on your networking needs (bands/speed/range):

http://www.wlanparts.com/c=JlltNaYJvkyr25XqPEqoQn4xj/product/CM9

http://www.wlanparts.com/c=JlltNaYJvkyr25XqPEqoQn4xj/product/NL2511MPPLUS

Both good cards, The CM9 is lower powered, but supports all three bands. The NL2511 is high-powered, 802.11b only, with good linux support on top of the standard windows driver.

Another alternative, the Intel card is pretty solid.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833106220

Jayllo

05-05-2006, 12:02 PM

Cool.

I'm thinking about the CM9, but isn't the antenna the limiting factor in these applications?

Thanks.

Gand

05-05-2006, 03:28 PM

Its a combination of factors. Unless you want to change the 'look' of the box by hooking up a different antenna, you are kind of stuck with swapping out the mini-pci card. A higher powered card has better sensetivity, even with a less-than-optimal antenna.

Jayllo

05-05-2006, 05:22 PM

Thanks Gand, that makes perfect sense.

I was wondering....

How many people here are using 64bit Windows? I'm wondering if the nvidia drivers are OK to use...

bilbois

05-05-2006, 05:30 PM

I have a intel wireless card in mine but on't use the wireless anymore becuase I need the gigabit speed for image editing over the network

SUOrangeman

05-07-2006, 09:02 PM

nVidia drivers have been treating me fine with the hardware below!

a94cobra

05-18-2006, 01:52 AM

Has anyone seen the silenx website for quieter fans. www.silenxusa.com I may just get a couple and see.

Aslan

05-18-2006, 02:30 PM

To me SilenX are way too overpriced for what you get. Basically they are just average quality ADDA fans, with SilenX overrating the airflow and underrating noise.
NMB/Panaflo, Papst, Yate Loon and Nexus are superior in quality IMO, and you could use the option of a Delta on a fan controller as well.

a94cobra

05-18-2006, 06:16 PM

Well, ok. I will check out those fans.

a94cobra

05-22-2006, 01:30 AM

There is a new AMD64 driver out. 1.31 I believe. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_13118,00.html

Stormlord

05-22-2006, 03:05 PM

Spongebob,

fyi - I do not work for Iwill, I work for a distributor that sells Iwill - that is not the same thing. The problem is that a 12cm fan redesign would require a case modification to do it properly and that is exactly what Iwill wanted to avoid with the upgrade for cost reasons (there is a MOQ for the case and the case molds are part of what is making the barebones so expensive). I also made other interesting suggestions (e.g. microATX dual opteron board and instead of using their own case QUALFIYING existing cases) - but they won't always take them I'm afraid, even if the idea is a good one :( They are afraid they won't have a market for it, so they need to be convinced they would actually sell such products in sufficient quantity...

Shuck,

these are very high temps, especially for 240 - what stepping are they?

Jayllo

05-26-2006, 08:01 PM

Can someone post their results with the low power Opterons?

Does anyone have 240EE processors? If so, what is the average temperature?

How about the HEs? What is the average temperature on that?

I am getting sick of the noise, and with summer coming, I don't want to make my AC work extra hard.

Thanks.

Gand

05-26-2006, 08:51 PM

a94cobra

05-30-2006, 02:20 AM

Not sure if this was ever answered here, and it may be a dumb question, but, can you run processors of different steppings? Or must they be identical?

DaveB

05-30-2006, 02:59 PM

From the little testing I have done that driver does nothing. I belive this is because IWILL does not have PowerNow implemented into their BIOS. As far as temperatures go, I have two 246HEs and the only way to keep them quiet under minimal load and full clock speed is to raise the smart fan temperature to 56c, which cooks the inside pretty well. Under full load, nothing can save the fans from going 5000 rpm and becomming little turbines. I use the CrystalCPUID utility to drop my frequency to 1 GHz and my voltage to 0.95v, this keeps the CPUs in the low 50s doing minimal work and the fans are 2000 rpm and below. If someone had better luck, please let me know. Its a great package, but can not compete with a bigger case for noise levels.
I run dual 265s at 2 GHz and my fans don't kick up to 5,000 even under 4 instances of Prime95. IMO the key to this is to only use one hard drive in the top mount and the use of a slot cooler. That extra space above the heatsink pads allows the heat to dissipate and get sucked out by the slot cooler.

http://i3.tinypic.com/wbubo0.jpg