New info on Dual Opteron SFF :)

[snoturtle]

Have a link (http://www.iwill.net/zmax/zmaxdp.htm)


Samples in July with shipping expected in september

Price expected 499

:D

[CHAPS]

This is just what I need. Now to figure out how to buy 10 of them in July :)!

[BiffStroganoffsky]

You could e-bay a kidney or something...rights to first born? :p

[airboy808]

Within the SFF box it sure is going to be HOT . I wished they gave more specs and pics of a fully equipped box. Dang Iwill I wish they did the same thing for xeons.

[Vandal]

I wish they did the same with Athlon's.
I'm still thinking about going SFF but I want to use all the parts from my old boxes - save me as much money as I can.

[CHAPS]

Originally posted by airboy808
Within the SFF box it sure is going to be HOT . I wished they gave more specs and pics of a fully equipped box. Dang Iwill I wish they did the same thing for xeons.

It will most likely have the following 1394b/GIGe/6 channel sound/ 1 32-bit PCI slot and 1 AGP 8X pro slot.

We know that much just from chipset info AND from the PIC.

[bluemonkey]

wonder how big of a power supply it's gonna have...

[bluemonkey]

hmmm i'm blind... 300watt ps... nevermind

[mogman42]

*cough cough* Hey Hooz/Jim......better get on the horn and have one of these babies for review ;)

Please e-mail us to make an appointment with IWILL sale.
anthony@iwill.net or call 886-2-22999897 # 132
Media sample review, plz mail to gary@iwill.net

[Kiger]

Like this is really badass, but generally if you have a dually system, you also weild SCSI. I can't really say I'm too giddy about a 32bit PCI slot. It would be nice to have a either: onboard 64 OR external SCSI connectors on the MB because, well, IDE blows.
I'm thinking along the lines of like a 9-14 bay SCSI tower that the user would want to connect to this sucker. But with only that single slot available, doesn't seem like there will be much available BW.

EDIT:

The only thing about SCSI I could find in that article was this (and it's a little weird):

http://www.iwill.net/zmax/zmaxdp_1.asp

NVIDIA RAID
Provides support for RAID 0, RAID 1, and RAID 0+1, enabling the highest disk data transfer rates for highest system and application performance

So... NVIDIA makes SCSI RAID cards, and one is gonna be in this?


EDIT #2:
Oh, and hehe, all hell will break loose when AMD goes dual core and we'll have FOUR CPUs in this thing. And, if the SCSI thing is true, imagine a 2 x 300gb Fujitsui U320 drives in there!

[Swank]

Not SCSI but SATA RAID. You can go to nVIDIA's webpage and look at the nForce3 Professional specs.

"NVIDIA RAID supports both SATA and ATA-133 disk controller standards."

[stmok23]

I wouldn't get all excited just yet...There's still design issues relating to the case.

[elec999]

Iwill is a very smart company, in this case. They spending all this time testing their creation in every possible way before releasing it. They are well aware or power usage of optys and their heat. They will make any chances or inprovements before they release it. Now lets start here, who will buy this puppy when its out.

[bluemonkey]

i'm looking forward to it.

[Anarki]

This thing makes me drool.

I was considering gettin a zMax (iMax?) P4 SFF system to replace my current fulltower, but now I'm thinking two Opteron 244/6/8's and an X800XT with 2x74Gb (Are they going to release a 148Gb?) WD Raptors in a tiny package would do nicely.

[Kiger]

Originally posted by Swank
Not SCSI but SATA RAID. You can go to nVIDIA's webpage and look at the nForce3 Professional specs.

"NVIDIA RAID supports both SATA and ATA-133 disk controller standards."

Well that's a bunch of crap. I don't know about any of you, but I need SCSI, and a 32bit PCI slot doesn't quite cut it :( Don't get me wrong, this is a great start and maybe down the road we'll get something better, but I don't think I'll be getting this even though it does look pretty sweet.

[CHAPS]

More details: Actual pics of the board AND cooling solution.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NzM

[shibumi77]

Holy crap that is sweet! A dual SFF is priority numero uno once I get back to work;-) Hopefully the bugs will all be worked out and prices will be somewhat lower.

[Tremek]

... where are the SATA ports?

[elec999]

Originally posted by Tremek
... where are the SATA ports?
They put these sata ports in a terrible location. But they cant get rid of the sata connectors, we need them. Most people will want a decent 74gig raptor in their dual poty box. Also doesnt the chipset need cooling. I see the nvidia chipset with no cooling.

[brian33x51]

I think the biggest motivation for using this system in an SFF cluster farm. These things should be cheaper to build a cluster using shelves instead of racks. The north bridge integrated gigabit controller makes this very attractive, stick some cool running hard drive in (maxtor fireball?) and this is perfect for an inexpensive processing node.

I think this system would be far more interesting with the option of replacing the AGP with another PCI slot (ie onboard video) or putting in PCI express. Also I think the PATA and floppy connectors should be removed entirely to make the board layout nicer and air flow better.

And while they're at it, they should depart from the ATX spec and come up with a more compact power connector, again to make better use of space and airflow.

Oh yeah and another complaint, these SFF machines are major dust suckers, the thin finned heat sinks get majorly gummed up. Put a big hole in the front and stick a removeable air filter in there.

And oh yeah, try to fit a 120 in the back instead of 80's

[elec999]

Originally posted by brian33x51
I think the biggest motivation for using this system in an SFF cluster farm. These things should be cheaper to build a cluster using shelves instead of racks. The north bridge integrated gigabit controller makes this very attractive, stick some cool running hard drive in (maxtor fireball?) and this is perfect for an inexpensive processing node.

I think this system would be far more interesting with the option of replacing the AGP with another PCI slot (ie onboard video) or putting in PCI express. Also I think the PATA and floppy connectors should be removed entirely to make the board layout nicer and air flow better.

And while they're at it, they should depart from the ATX spec and come up with a more compact power connector, again to make better use of space and airflow.

Oh yeah and another complaint, these SFF machines are major dust suckers, the thin finned heat sinks get majorly gummed up. Put a big hole in the front and stick a removeable air filter in there.

And oh yeah, try to fit a 120 in the back instead of 80's
Great ideas, cant you email Iwill and make these suggestions. Do you think they could add a pci-x slot instead of the agp. These should make amazing clusters, like you said.

[Kiger]

Originally posted by elec999
Great ideas, cant you email Iwill and make these suggestions. Do you think they could add a pci-x slot instead of the agp. These should make amazing clusters, like you said.

My question is why not simply 1 x AGP + 1 x PCI-X. That's the logical solution right?

[zathrasater]

Just my two cents:

I think the AGP + PCI makes sense for a SFF system. What type of card would PCI-X be useful for? Gigabit NIC, SCSI and RAID cards. With the onboard Gigabit NIC, that leaves only SCSI and RAID cards. For a single drive, the 32/33 PCI bus isn't likely to be the limiting factor. As for RAID, to be useful you'd have to use an external case for the drives. Unless you use fiber channel and a very long cable to an array in the next room (for silence), I don't see the appeal of a SFF system with a SCSI or SATA case next to (or under) it. If that's what you want, why not just use a mid tower in the first place? I think that a single 74GB Raptor would match well with this system.

Although it's possible to install those kinds of cards in a SFF system, I think it's more likely that users will want to install a better sound card, or a TV capture card (which often are incompatible with PCI-X slots).

Of course, PCI-E would be better for the future... maybe in the next revision :D

[benwang]

Yes in the next revision will have PCI-E

Originally posted by zathrasater
Just my two cents:

I think the AGP + PCI makes sense for a SFF system. What type of card would PCI-X be useful for? Gigabit NIC, SCSI and RAID cards. With the onboard Gigabit NIC, that leaves only SCSI and RAID cards. For a single drive, the 32/33 PCI bus isn't likely to be the limiting factor. As for RAID, to be useful you'd have to use an external case for the drives. Unless you use fiber channel and a very long cable to an array in the next room (for silence), I don't see the appeal of a SFF system with a SCSI or SATA case next to (or under) it. If that's what you want, why not just use a mid tower in the first place? I think that a single 74GB Raptor would match well with this system.

Although it's possible to install those kinds of cards in a SFF system, I think it's more likely that users will want to install a better sound card, or a TV capture card (which often are incompatible with PCI-X slots).

Of course, PCI-E would be better for the future... maybe in the next revision :D

[brian33x51]

Originally posted by zathrasater
Just my two cents:

I think the AGP + PCI makes sense for a SFF system. What type of card would PCI-X be useful for? Gigabit NIC, SCSI and RAID cards. With the onboard Gigabit NIC, that leaves only SCSI and RAID cards. For a single drive, the 32/33 PCI bus isn't likely to be the limiting factor. As for RAID, to be useful you'd have to use an external case for the drives. Unless you use fiber channel and a very long cable to an array in the next room (for silence), I don't see the appeal of a SFF system with a SCSI or SATA case next to (or under) it. If that's what you want, why not just use a mid tower in the first place? I think that a single 74GB Raptor would match well with this system.

Although it's possible to install those kinds of cards in a SFF system, I think it's more likely that users will want to install a better sound card, or a TV capture card (which often are incompatible with PCI-X slots).

Of course, PCI-E would be better for the future... maybe in the next revision :D

Ever heard of myrinet, inifiniband, etc??

Gigabit is fine, but doesn't cut it for really high end cluster setups.
10GB is going to also be a very common feature coming to the high end clusters also.

If you want a system to drive a TV, I'm sure you'd be satisfied with a single processor system. I have a hard time believing that a dual opteron SFF will be able to run reliably without some care being taken for case cooling.

[zathrasater]

Originally posted by brian33x51
Ever heard of myrinet, inifiniband, etc??

Gigabit is fine, but doesn't cut it for really high end cluster setups.
10GB is going to also be a very common feature coming to the high end clusters also.

If you want a system to drive a TV, I'm sure you'd be satisfied with a single processor system. I have a hard time believing that a dual opteron SFF will be able to run reliably without some care being taken for case cooling.
For clustering PCI-X would be useful. But I'd think that a seperate run of these for clusters would make more sense - like Shuttle did with the SB52 (IIRC). As it is, you would likely want to remove the fin for clustering anyways.

Iwill themselves describe the target market this way:
IWILL ZMAXdp is designed with the digital professional in mind, from pre-visualization to audio post-production.
To me, that suggests a regular PCI slot to support high-end audio cards, DV editing cards and the like.

As for being satisfied with a single processor system - this is 2CPU - you don't need to explain why you want a duallie! :D

[brian33x51]

Originally posted by zathrasater
For clustering PCI-X would be useful. But I'd think that a seperate run of these for clusters would make more sense - like Shuttle did with the SB52 (IIRC). As it is, you would likely want to remove the fin for clustering anyways.

Iwill themselves describe the target market this way:

To me, that suggests a regular PCI slot to support high-end audio cards, DV editing cards and the like.

As for being satisfied with a single processor system - this is 2CPU - you don't need to explain why you want a duallie! :D

Heh, I guess that's true.

I'd say it would be an ultimate true feat of engineering to be able to build an SFF system which supports a dual opteron 250 setup without melting down under normal operating conditions.

At work here we do tons of image processing which tends to hit machines pretty hard over a long period of time. Anything duallie always needs some very special form of cooling if it isn't in some server room.

[zathrasater]

From the front page (for those who might have missed it: Tech Report's pictures and comments (http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/6806)

Apparently there will be an external SATA connector, and matching SATA enclosures available. I still don't see the appeal, but some of you here should be happy.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Thanks for that link, finally got the answer to how the DIMMs are set up. For me, that's the real drawback on this system, only two DIMMS and both connected to one CPU. I guess you could stuff a 2 GB or even a 4 GB stick in there but the cost of that option is still fairly high. Another 1/2" or so of width and they could have done the memory right. Or perhaps just using an external power supply altogether, reducing the heating load and freeing up some more space. Once again, either excessive caution or a lack of the need to exceed has won out. Too bad.

The External SATA port is a real step forward. The main purpose of a SFF, other than just being small for small's sake, is the potential for portability. Having an external SATA port provides that. For an outing, probably don't need the whole kit and kaboodle, just leave the drive array at home.

Still and all, its a big step in the right direction. Just would like to someday see a manufacturer do something radical. Go all the way, damn the torpedos and full speed ahead, sort of like GM's electric, fuel cell, drive by wire skateboard concept car, now that was inspiration!

[HFU]

More Iwill SFF pictures here (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=866&s=13).

HFU

[bluemonkey]

sweet!

haha check out those guys with the IWILL SFFs on their head. funny...

[stmok23]

I know alot of you are interested in this product...

So here's an article with pictures of the initial layout of this setup.

Please note, it gives you the idea of the basic layout, and may or may not represent the final layout.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review_print.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NzM=

Another note, I hear Iwill pushed up the dates...Something about moving it from Sept to August...

[CHAPS]

Originally posted by stmok23
I know alot of you are interested in this product...

So here's an article with pictures of the initial layout of this setup.

Please note, it gives you the idea of the basic layout, and may or may not represent the final layout.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review_print.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NzM=

Another note, I hear Iwill pushed up the dates...Something about moving it from Sept to August...

This is already posted in the thread ... still good info though.

[benwang]

Originally posted by stmok23
Another note, I hear Iwill pushed up the dates...Something about moving it from Sept to August...

:D:D:D:D

[The Doctor]

I'm still getting one. Far too much fun! :D

[kevikev]

Any updates on availability?

[benwang]

30 samples early August. (for the entire world)

Mass availability..... dunno

[HFU]

:D Whao! Only 30? Who is going to be luck one out of 30? Probably 30 review sites around the web. ;)

HFU

[benwang]

Originally posted by HFU
:D Whao! Only 30? Who is going to be luck one out of 30? Probably 30 review sites around the web. ;)

HFU

yea, a little short on numbers.

1 here, 29 elsewhere :)

[HFU]

Originally posted by benwang
1 here, 29 elsewhere :) Make sure you bring us some cool review on this most anticipated dual Opteron SFF. :D

HFU

[vdd]

I read somewhere that iwill may be releasing some kind of external hard disk case to connect with the external sata port. Does anyone have more details about this?

[audioaficionado]

Two Opterons is nice but I want NUMA too. I think CPU1 has to go through CPU0 to access the RAM. I believe NUMA has each CPU get its own dual channel bank.

If all this is true, how much performance would this nForce3/250 lose over a true NUMA dual Opteron workstation?

Maybe nothing is lost for desktop or light workstation useage. NUMA might be useful only for servers and high-end workstations.

The Shuttle nForce3/150 would still be pretty good if it works with the dual core AMD64 processors coming out in the future.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Its true, the memory is not discreet per CPU, its all on CPU0 and CPU1 has to go through CPU0 to get to it. Plus, there's only 2 DIMM slots. Not good, not good at all. Since its all custom, there's no reason they couldn't have added just 3/4" and gotten two slots per processor. Its a neat little exercise but they should have run it past a user group like this before settling on a design. So close, but yet still so far.

[The Doctor]

It's all gone oddly quiet... anyone know anything more concrete about this yet? Final release dates, that sort of thing.

Anyone else think that this might spark off a few other SFF builders to try out another dually SFF? Perhaps a Xeon one, or another Opteron one? Perhaps people might try to build a "non-Shuttle" design. I myself quite like the idea of something like a 1U or 2U rackmount case, a sort of "pizza-box" design standing on its side (obviously some sort of foot would be in order). Such a design would allow for more space for things like extra DIMM slots, as well as still allowing for AGP/PCI/PCI Express slots, and would probably be more suited to duallies since it would be based on tried-and-tested rackmount layouts.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Yes, the silence is deafening. I hope this is not a sign the concept has been abandoned but rather the Iwill magicians are hard at work incorporating our comments into this sweet little box.

And yes, I second your thoughts this will spark a new direction for SFF makers, both commercial and private. Indeed, it was my interest in building a portable workstation (I've owned SAGER notebooks only for the last 10 years) that had me searching out information on dualies that led me to the ZMax DP which in turn led me to this forum.

At the time, I was working on the cooling system and looking for motherboards. The ZMax had both but as it is currently configured, it would not suit my needs, mostly because of the memory setup (2 GB off one CPU, just 3/4" wider or 2" longer and they could have squeezed in a second set of DIMM slots for the other CPU and it would have been my baby).

However, because of this forum, I found out about the Iwill DK8E2 and am hopefull it will be satisfactory as the basis of a portable workstaition I want to build this winter. I say portable, not notebook, as the size is beyond the general consensus of what a notbook is and I don't think adequate battery power is financially achievable at this point in the future. Besides, I would almost always use it where AC is available. Perhaps just enough battery to act as a short term UPS, maybe enough to move from room to room. As long as it remains within the limits of "carry-on" luggage, I am OK. Weight, within reason, is not a problem as I would have it mounted with wheels ala most contemporary luggage (in this case, with shock absorbers and a virtually bullet-proof casing)

[Raziel]

Originally posted by zathrasater
For clustering PCI-X would be useful. But I'd think that a seperate run of these for clusters would make more sense - like Shuttle did with the SB52 (IIRC). As it is, you would likely want to remove the fin for clustering anyways.

I think people here are missing the obvious. PCI-X slots and their cards are simply too damn long to fit into a small formfactor case. This is probably the major driving factor with the choice of the pci32 slot.

Iwill should release a slightly longer version with 2 pci-x slots, a couple more ram banks, a second onboard gigabit port, enhanced cooling, and missing the wifi nubble at the top, pata ports, and onboard sound. This would be ideal for the cluster market.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Originally posted by Raziel

Iwill should release a slightly longer version with 2 pci-x slots, a couple more ram banks, a second onboard gigabit port, enhanced cooling, and missing the wifi nubble at the top, pata ports, and onboard sound. This would be ideal for the cluster market.

I don't really care a whiffle-poof about PCI-X slots or not, frankly, if you are really into clustering, there are better solutions. I also think people have to be aware Shuttle is not the final work on SFF. Its a non-form-format, ie - there is no standard (other than smaller than mini-ATX). Most of the mainboards are custom. So, what's to prevent any manufacturer from making the board whatever works? Nada!!

However, your words above comfort me. I wouldn't want to lose the onboard sound, but yah, the pata ports can go. Cooling can always be improved and I don't like nubs, nowhere, nohow, noway, never. Additional RAM banks are the real key though. Giving each PCU its own RAM enables NUMA and that's a major performance gain.

But PCI-X or not, well, I'd prefer PCIe but I suppose there are those that have legacy drives and cards. Better to make it both ways. Yesterday is nice, but its yesterday.

[The Doctor]

Just to clarify my earlier post, this is a picture of the sort of thing I had in mind...

<img src="http://img28.photobucket.com/albums/v83/Kasterborous/Computers/pizzabox.jpg">

This is a mock-up of some Apple concept design thing I got from SpyMac over a year ago. It shows a SFF design I think would be more suited to dual CPU machines, being as it's similar to a 1U/2U rackmount chassis. It's flatter but with a larger footprint than a Shuttle; ideally I'd like to see a version of this that could stand on its side, like some sort of SFF tower. I imagine the cards being on an NLX-like riser at the far end, so they are stacked horizontally if the case is lying down as it is here. For some reason on this pic it shows the power button and the main optical drive on different sides of the main system, which is a little odd.

Anyway, just an idea I had. Although I'm not an engineer so in practice I have no idea how feasible it would be.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Nice looking but yeah, having major items on opposite sides certainly cuts down on the potential orientations. I agree, it would be nice to be able to use it flat (as shown) or upright (as you suggest). Heck, woudn't be so bad to be able to hang it on the wall.

There's one company I ran across that makes a set of parts, like erector set, so you could build just about anything to put your computer in. There were examples of bi-planes, cars, etc. There's really no reason you have to stick with the usual boring case, just check out www.mini-itx.com for their projects. Guitars, toasters, gingerbread villages, hats, old TVs, juke boxes, pizza boxes, humidors, briefcases, game consoles, teddy bears, you name it.

There's also someone in Japan that makes life-size anime-like dolls as 'cases'. In other words, if you can conceive it, somebody has probably done it.

Me, I love it all. The more the merrier. The wilder and more off the beaten track, the better.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by MARQUISDARQUIS
Nice looking but yeah, having major items on opposite sides certainly cuts down on the potential orientations. I agree, it would be nice to be able to use it flat (as shown) or upright (as you suggest). Heck, woudn't be so bad to be able to hang it on the wall.

There's one company I ran across that makes a set of parts, like erector set, so you could build just about anything to put your computer in. There were examples of bi-planes, cars, etc. There's really no reason you have to stick with the usual boring case, just check out www.mini-itx.com for their projects. Guitars, toasters, gingerbread villages, hats, old TVs, juke boxes, pizza boxes, humidors, briefcases, game consoles, teddy bears, you name it.

There's also someone in Japan that makes life-size anime-like dolls as 'cases'. In other words, if you can conceive it, somebody has probably done it.

Me, I love it all. The more the merrier. The wilder and more off the beaten track, the better.

Indeed! There's a magazine here in the UK called Custom PC, and each issue they build a "designer" PC. They started out with "Project Bad Apple" - putting a PC inside an old PowerMac G4 case - and since then have featured PCs made out of old oscilloscopes, guitars, a doll's house, a model car, and even a Christmas tree.

[Sinizterguy]

Originally posted by The Doctor
Indeed! There's a magazine here in the UK called Custom PC, and each issue they build a "designer" PC. They started out with "Project Bad Apple" - putting a PC inside an old PowerMac G4 case - and since then have featured PCs made out of old oscilloscopes, guitars, a doll's house, a model car, and even a Christmas tree.

Project Bad Apple was done by Gordy on Bit-Tech Forums (http://forums.bit-tech.net) and Custom PC just featured the mod. They didn't "build it".

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Sinizterguy
Project Bad Apple was done by Gordy on Bit-Tech Forums (http://forums.bit-tech.net) and Custom PC just featured the mod. They didn't "build it".

I stand corrected. But it was in the first issue, which was months ago, so I'll blame poor memory ;)

[The Doctor]

I was just reading some other forums relating to the Zmax-DP and one of them claims it's been redesigned to have four DIMM slots. If so that would be brilliant (assuming they're putting two per CPU) - I'm going to double-check.

EDIT: damn, seems to be wishful thinking, or someone not getting their facts straight. Any more news on a concrete release date?

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Originally posted by The Doctor
EDIT: damn, seems to be wishful thinking, or someone not getting their facts straight. Any more news on a concrete release date?

I take it the "damn" is because there's not 4 slots?

Of all the things they could do, that's the one thing that would make this machine a step above everything else, that would make a really bold statement. A dual Opteron without dedicated memory for each processor is almost an insult. Its like a toothless tiger. What were they thinking? Or perhaps they weren't thinking.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by MARQUISDARQUIS
I take it the "damn" is because there's not 4 slots?


Indeed. I can't find any reference to it having more than 2 slots anywhere apart from on that forum. Indeed, the pictures that the post itself linked to clearly only show two slots.

I know what you mean about the lack of memory slots per CPU. Hopefully someone will be paying attention and Iwill won't be the only one to make a duallie SFF. Or maybe Iwill will be redesigning it after all. After all, if push came to shove and they were really concerned about DIMMs taking up space, couldn't they just use SODIMMs instead? It might make the memory more expensive, but still...

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

If push really came to shove, I'd give up the PCI slot for two more DIMMs or even 4 SODIMMS. As it is, you really can't use the dual channel on the memory and the second CPU is really just a back-up, not a full twin. I'd give up the second 5" optical drive or switch to 2-1/2" HDDs to get the second pair of DIMMs. Nearly anything. I just don't get it, so close, but oh so far.

Well, like you said Doctor, hopefully this will spur the other manufacturer's to give it a try and perhaps that will nudge Iwill to try a bit harder next time.

Meanwhile, I am still working on a briefcase machine using an Iwill DK8E2. That'll have four slots per CPU.

[jhaislet]

I do not understand the extremely small limits they place on these boards regarding size. Why not extend the board another 1/2" in both length & width and do the same with the case. Would anyone not buy a Dual Channel SFF Dual Opt if it were a measely 1" longer or maybe 1/2" wider?

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

My point exactly! Come on Iwill, listen to your potential customers.

Yah, that argument can be used to keep making it bigger and bigger, but we aren't looking at that. Just a little bit more to get those two extra DIMM slots in. Might even be enough to add a second PCI slot or improve the cooling.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Hi all, I've been following this thread for a bit as I'm quite interested in getting the Zmaxdp myself. I'd forgotten my password and have a different e-mail address so didn't bother to post though.

I've decided to sign up though because I noticed something today seeing as I haven't heard anything about this box for a while, not new stuff.

http://www.iwill.net/zmax/zmaxdp_1.asp

Look at the picture of the mobo on their site, it's changed. It now has 4 RAM slots. Now are they 2 per CPU or 4 slots for one CPU do you think? They are all right next to each other so would that generally mean it's 4 slots for one CPU? I'm not an engineer but doesn't RAM need to be reasonably close to the CPU slot?

I'm not a hardcore 2 CPU person so I wasn't too worried about the lack of NUMA but having 2 more slots would be great. I could have more RAM, cheaper.

What do you think? I swear the picture has changed though. The other thing I think has changed is the CPU sockets both have a heatsink retension brackets around them. I don't think that was there before either.

Infact, look at the Hexus preview.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD03NzM

The layout of the board is completely different. Not only the colour of the PCB but also the the placement of components.

[The Doctor]

Yes, that picture on their website is very misleading, isn't it? It's actually a closeup of an ordinary ATX dual Opteron board, or at least, so it appears to me. Unless it's part of a very radical redesign of the interior, the capacitors would get in the way of the established cooling system. In addition, the back panel connectors don't tally with other Iwill Zmax SFF machines.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Mmm,

Are you sure Doctor? You'd have to assume that they would post a picture of a board they have designed. If I look at the 2 workstation class Opteron boards I see on their site, they don't look anything like this board. The CPU's are much future apart. Also look how close the AGP slot is to one of the CPU's. Makes sense in a SFF as you don't have much space but on a full sized server board? Seems too crammed together.

Well the cooling solution is custom using heatpipes so I imagine they can just change that to reposition around the caps.

The rear ports can be laid out differently, just need a different plate at the back of their case.

As for other people saying they should enlarge the size of the case. My guess is that they probably won't shift a huge number of these. It's probably a treading the water sort of product to gauge demand. Much cheaper to use a case which they are already manafacturing for their single CPU models. I'm sure that's just a money and cost reason.

Maybe it is not a picture of the board for the zmaxdp but I'd like to think it is. Doesn't make much sense to show another board on there. Not when they originally was showing a picture of the proper board. Why would they go to the effort of changing it when people have already seen what the board did look like? Unless of course it's not longer the same board.

Anyone else got any opinions? Doctor can you maybe show me a picture of the board you think this matches? It clearly doesn't have 2 rows of DIMMS which most NUMA boards do, does Iwill make a non NUMA Opteron board for ATX?

[The Doctor]

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right tbh! I just think that this is more likely. I'm sure I've seen a normal ATX board like this with the same DIMM arrangement... I'll see if I can find it. If not, though, then I'm happy to concede that you're on to something... :)

EDIT - I think it's an Arima/Rioworks HDAMB, one of the earliest dual Opteron boards with AGP. Compare this photo with the capacitor layout in the one provided at Iwill's website, and you'll notice that they are remarkably similar... which is a shame :(

http://www.amdboard.com/arima_hdamb_1.jpg

[FastLaneJBUK]

OK Doctor. Your right. It does look exactly like that board. The caps are all in the same locations, the AGP slot is a AGP Pro slot and close to one of the CPU's, etc. Damn. That sucks.

Still I do hope maybe they have redesigned it for 4 memory slots, it's quite misleading otherwise to show it having 4 slots if it only comes with 2. They have changed the picture so while it might not be their board, I hope it's because they have designed a 4 DIMM model.

Wish there was a preview or some more info on this model. Most products are paper launched these days. It would be nice to see a preview or review a little bit before I can buy one so if it is what I want. I can get the Opterons and RAM sourced, etc.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Yeah, there's no question that's the Arima board.

Too bad, too very damn bad.

But hope springs eternal.

Just maybe, just possible, there's a chance that if could be they are doing the right thing. Two DIMMs is just a travesty, there's not much point in a dualie with only two DIMM slots. The only reason to do something like that is to generate buzz and Iwill really doesn't seem like that kind of company. In the workstation market, they have been very serious and committed.

But who knows how much influence marketing types, the slugs they are, can and will exert on otherwise rational engineers.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well I expect if they could put 4 RAM slots on in the space they have for the mobo. Then they'd do it. It does make a lot of sense. I only expect it to have 2 slots if it wasn't possible in the PCB space they have. I'm not too up on the ins and outs of motherboard design but I'm sure it's a lot more complex than sitting there moving this and that around like a puzzle until you can fit those extra 2 slots on there.

I just hope the changing of the picture is a sign that they have changed it and it will have more RAM slots on it. If not, I'm still confussed why they changed the picture.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

I agree with you there. A mainboard is a complicated bit of work. Lots and lots of leads going every which way and they all have to be as short as possible. The board only has so many layers available to run lead A under lead B and then over lead C which has get past lead E and G while D, F and H all need to go over A and under B. Meanwhile, every component has its own spatial and power needs. Then there are the peripherals. No question, it's a complicated bit of work.

But, that's why they get paid the big bucks.

Meanwhile, I like your argument as to the reasons for changing the photo. At the very least, its a good straw to grasp for the time being.

[gribo]

There is an online shop here (israel) that gives preliminary pricing info on the ZmaxDP, around 800$ US (case+psu+mb). i wish i could afford one..

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by gribo
There is an online shop here (israel) that gives preliminary pricing info on the ZmaxDP, around 800$ US (case+psu+mb). i wish i could afford one..

-cough- -splutter- I thought it was supposed to be about $500 US!? :eek:

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well that's not the price in the US though. The 500 dollars would be the price in the US for it sold in the US I imagine.

Nothing much been said on this product for a while. Still looking forward to it and waiting. Just would be nice to have a preview with it working so I know if it's worth waiting for or not at least.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

I second that. Probably not interested in it myself, unless they were to change the memory to 4 DIMM slots, but its still a revolutionary design. Just not revolutionary enough.

Come On Iwill, release it, release it now but only after you made those changes. Full memory support for each processor and maybe possibly a switch to PCIe with double graphics slots for the SLI setup. Now that would be Yaaaaaaaa Hoooooooooo Yabba Dabba Dooooooooo Goodness.

[audioaficionado]

If they put NUMA on that SFF of theirs, I'll buy it in a New York minute. It would be foolish to buy a very epensive pair of processors and not get NUMA on the mobo. BTW 32bit XPproSP2 does NUMA as good as s2k3 does.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Oh I didn't know XP SP2 added NUMA support. Mmm, that is interesting :)

Still, want some more info on the zmaxdp!

[snoturtle]

Any new info on this ??

Haven't seen nor heard much in a few months :(

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Nada, unfortunately. Perhaps it was just a flash in the pan.

Then again, maybe Iwill saw the comments and are doing something about it. Maybe, hopefully, perhaps.

[Kiger]

@MARQUISDARQUIS

Regarding the comment on the double PCE slots... it will never happen in a SFF. Why? Put it this way. My shuttle has a 250w PSU. Powering a simple Raedon 7000 + 2hds + 1 DVDRW I can't clock my chip any higher than 3ghz. Why? I run out of power. Moral? One psu will NEVER EVER power two 6800's + 2 cpus pushing 2.4ghz (amd speeds). Even if you had a 600w psu in there it wouldn't happen. So by the time iwill outfitted a case with two psu's, enough room for 4+ card bays (remember - each 6800 takes up 2 slots of space), and some more room for other stuff, they'd be (1) out of power; or (2) out of space and the case would be the size of a normal case now; or (3) out fresh air to cool it all down; or (4) out of money since only a few people would buy it. :p

[brian33x51]

In my opinion it would make more sense to offer a microatx sized dual opti board which might have some sort of fancy blower system that uses the first AGP/PCI slots to keep the whle thing cool. That would leave only 2 available slots and hopefully enough board space to integrate lots of (good) stuff.

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

I just love a "can't do it" attitude.
First of all, despite all that is said about power supplies (and its mostly said by folks that aren't electrical engineers) and the loads on them, they often don't really put out the power claimed nor are the loads on them as onerous as thought. Check this out: http://www.thephonebot.com/shuttle/index.htm
Turns out Shuttle power supplies are really quite good in that they actually put out not only what is claimed but often quite a bit more. And in this case, the high end card, reportedly the highest wattsucker of all, doesn't suck all that much. And by the way, there are single slot versions of the card. You can also modify the card to be single slot. More to the point, there's really no reason a PSU has to be in the box. I realize there's a wide spread bias against wall warts and such, but they do help solve the cooling problem. Why bring a major heat source into a confined space that suffers from overheating in the first place? I'd really like to see a large combination external UPSU (uninterruptible power supply unit) that provides all the dc power needed for all your computing needs. That would help things immeasurably as well as getting rid of the collection of transformers we now have.

Secondly, cooliing, we haven't even begun to see what can be done with cooling. At best just the surface has been marked as to where a scratch might be made. Moving the transformers out of the box as noted above would help. But heat pipe technology is hardly used effectivly in any situation. What heat pipes are really good at is moving heat and they get better and better the longer they are, particularly if there is a great vertical difference. In most uses, they merely move the heat a few inches, why not a few feet or at least several inches? In a well engineered integrated cooling system, all the major components would have cooling circuits connecting them to a large radiator unit or units. This is where Peltiers can help, not where they are usually used, at the source of the heat where they not only overcool with the problems of condensation and add significantly to the heat problem, but outboard where they can significantly lower the target temperature of the heat pipe as well as raise the temperature of the radiator to air interface.

So that's not a problem either.

Lastly, there needs to be much more ingenuity in the design of mainboards. Much of the layout is on the basis of what was done before rather than what should be done. Admittedly, circuitry is a complicated affair but even the BTX form factor doesn't really look at the overall situation with a cold calculating eye. I believe there's a lot of room for improvement in the overall layout of main boards. For one then, why do the slots have to be on the same board? This forces the add-in boards to be perpendicular to the main board. This problem is solve roughly in 1U rack systems by using angled risers, but why not simply have all the add in slots on a separate board that plugs into an edge connection on the main board?

As for cost, as with most electronics, its not the materials that cost, but the packaging and marketing. And yes, I believe there is a market for high performance computing, a substantial market that can and will pay for high end components. 50 years ago people thought Ferraris at $25000 a pop were crazy toys only for the extreme rich, but now a days, the market for high end cars is healthier than ever. And in fact, despite the costs of high performance cars being what they are, they are still better deals in relation to the economy now than they were then. Much better.

[brian33x51]

The idea of combining the PSU and UPS is an excellent idea. Most people don't know enough to buy a UPS and really it's a necessity, too many have problems with their computers caused by poor wall power.

One idea for making an SFF type dual opteron system with the power supply removed might be to take advantage of the hypertransport architecture and put the processors themselves on riser cards with their local NUMA memory. Sun and Dell have some pretty well designed air cooling systems that place a hood over the processors and suck air through the hood using 90 or 120mm fans. Sadly retention mechanisms for processor riser cards are generally pretty hard to work with.

[paulmofyourhand]

Originally posted by Kiger
@MARQUISDARQUIS

Regarding the comment on the double PCE slots... it will never happen in a SFF. Why? Put it this way. My shuttle has a 250w PSU. Powering a simple Raedon 7000 + 2hds + 1 DVDRW I can't clock my chip any higher than 3ghz. Why? I run out of power. Moral? One psu will NEVER EVER power two 6800's + 2 cpus pushing 2.4ghz (amd speeds). Even if you had a 600w psu in there it wouldn't happen. So by the time iwill outfitted a case with two psu's, enough room for 4+ card bays (remember - each 6800 takes up 2 slots of space), and some more room for other stuff, they'd be (1) out of power; or (2) out of space and the case would be the size of a normal case now; or (3) out fresh air to cool it all down; or (4) out of money since only a few people would buy it. :p

that 250w psu is not holding you back, im an avid SFF reader/owner, and it has to be your proc and/or memory,
the configuration that your listing is nothing for that psu, that psu has been proven over and over again to push and pull 3.2 or faster p4's, 6800gt's , x800pro, dual raptor drives, dvd burner, the works with no problems

btw, im runing , 2500+ axp-mobile @ 2.5ghz, 9800 pro, 2 wd 80gb in RAID 0 on a promise TX4 raid controller, one 80gb WD for backup, all on the older version 200w psu,

apologies for the thread jack, ..

back on topic: i wouldnt buy it

[loony]

I'm sure everyone following this thread knows that the product list on iwill.net lists the ZMAX dp but has no details... well, since a couple of days, http://www.iwill.com.tw/products/ProductDetail.asp?vID=199&CID=212
(their taiwanese website) has some info on it... Not that I can read most of it but maybe someone else can enlighten us what it says...
Anyway, it surely means we're one step closer to the ZMAX dp....

Peter.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by loony
I'm sure everyone following this thread knows that the product list on iwill.net lists the ZMAX dp but has no details... well, since a couple of days, http://www.iwill.com.tw/products/ProductDetail.asp?vID=199&CID=212
(their taiwanese website) has some info on it... Not that I can read most of it but maybe someone else can enlighten us what it says...
Anyway, it surely means we're one step closer to the ZMAX dp....

Peter.

Interesting (I can't read it either, but it's a positive developement at least), but it better not only be available in that colour! :eek:

[loony]

Originally posted by The Doctor
Interesting (I can't read it either, but it's a positive developement at least), but it better not only be available in that colour! :eek:

Muhahahahahaha :D Yeah - white or black - that's the way to go... There is another one on the website that is blue and then there is always the one they had there all along in the pre-announcement that was white...

Peter.

[audioaficionado]

http://www.iwill.net/zmax/zmaxdp_1.asp

This must be buried in the Iwill.net site as when you go back out to the home page and do a search on ZMAXdp, you get "no data available"

[The Doctor]

I've been thinking that it might be better waiting for an SFF PC that takes a dual core chip. Admittedly while the thought of a quad CPU in a box this size is enough to moisten the underwear of even the most jaded SMP-er, I imagine it will suffer from less heat and power problems, and of course it will free up more internal space.

[HalfFlat]

From a link on the IWILL Japan site, we have details of the zMAXdp presentation (http://www.iwill-japan.co.jp/html/event0409.html) which is being held at the Linux Cafe in Akihabara this Saturday.

The text basically says that in order to mark the start of availability of the world's first dual opteron cube-form factor PC, they'll be holding a presentation of all their new kit, where they will be showing off their new small form factor PC line, server class hardware, and giving a demonstration of the DK8N motherboard and the zMAXdp. There'll also be some sort of 'mini-game' (?) with prizes.

Of course my Japanese isn't so good, so don't take my word for it!

Hope to be there this Saturday! Anyone else able to make it?

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Wow! If you can be there and potentially understand what's happening, that would be fantastic. Please take your camera, even if its possible they may not permit pictures, better to have it with you than not and some good pictures would be of immense value to all of us.

I am currently plotting for a new Shuttle SN95G5 but would love to see what Iwill has to offer in a SFF. I like the ZMax DP except for the number of deficiencies it has, primarily just the 2 DIMM slots. Its like putting a 6 liter V-12 in a car but only mounting it with a single barrel carbuerator that primarily feeds only one bank of cylinders. All that potential and no way to use it. Its almost perverted.

[B.Slisk]

Originally posted by The Doctor
...but it better not only be available in that colour! :eek: I just got a invoice from Iwill for a ZMAX dp. We spoke to them and just ordered one, never bothering much about what colour. Turns out they are sending a red one. I don't know what other colours, if any, these will be available in. I'll just wait and see. Until I see it IRL, I have no idea how I'll feel about that colour. So much depends on the finish and details. At least it's small enough to hide...

[HalfFlat]

Well, I went to the presentation. Lots of neat stuff!
I'm writing up a short report with photos, but in the meantime:

* DK8ES and zMAXdp are sampling, and should be available retail within six weeks.

* They have a 10-slot blade server offering, each blade with 2 or 4 Opterons, and each with two 10Gbit Infiniband connections.

* Also displayed a 4-cpu 1U server, and an 8-cpu beast of a machine

* Demoed (I think) nVIDIA's SLI in a DN800 board

* Demoed the athlon64-based small form factor ZPC64, notable for being specifically designed to take high-end graphics cards.

* zMAXdp really does have only 2 RAM slots for max 2GB :(

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Thanks for the report HalfLife.

Though I am dissappointed with the ZMax DP, what a waste. All that potential left unused. Its too bad.

But the ZPC64 sounds good, I had thought it was limited to onboard graphics. I'll have to check it out. Or perhaps its not socket 939 which means essentially a dead end within a year or two.

The rest is great stuff though of little practical use to me. Looking forward to seeing your full report with pictures.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well I am still interested in the zMaxDP but still 6 weeks until it's available? That put's it well out of September :(

[benwang]

hmmmm Mine lands tomorrow :)

[ayt999]

Originally posted by benwang
hmmmm Mine lands tomorrow :) did you get it yet?

[benwang]

Originally posted by ayt999
did you get it yet?

Yea its sitting at customs awaiting clearing, it'll be here tomorrow morning, I'll take some pics and upload them later in the day.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Do you mind me asking where you got it from? Or you know people that know people that have contacts in all the right places? Hehe

Cannot wait to hear about the rig and how it is.

[benwang]

Ok I've got it here now, taking some pics :)

[audioaficionado]

Originally posted by FastLaneJBUK
Do you mind me asking where you got it from? Or you know people that know people that have contacts in all the right places? Hehe

Cannot wait to hear about the rig and how it is. Ben Wang is a dealer and one of the few Iwill importers in AU. Yes he is well connected ;) http://www.synrax.com/

[Tremek]

Any word yet on whether this beastie will overclock?

[MARQUISDARQUIS]

Uh, Ben? Pictures? Reviews? Anything? Does it work? Does it scream?

Or are you so blown away you can't even post?

[[L2K]FiShy]

Whats the word on a Aus price will be?

[B.Slisk]

I received one of these this Monday morning, but I have yet to find time to give it a spin. As far as looks go I have no complaints. The red colour is quite striking, but I find it pleasing after all beige, white, and black boxes.

Unfortunately I won't have time to play with it until some time next week... :(

No time even for pictures...

[benwang]

http://www.synrax.com/iwill/zmax-dp/zmax-dp-board.jpg

Its reasonably loud, both fans spin at around 5500RPM... probably what you would expect from a Prescott system though.

BIOS, heh reminds of the DK8N... in fact its identical in features to the DK8N BIOS :)

[FastLaneJBUK]

Just wondering but what sort of size are the fans and the make? I would imagine it's possible to change the fans out if needs be? Though still, with a high end graphics card like a 6800GT in there, I doubt quieting the rear fans would make much difference.

Any idea when us people without the connections will be able to get one? I live in the UK.

[Heinrich]

here is a little preview of it

http://www.todoreviews.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=73&page=1

note in the conclusion they say that the final version will be able to overclock:confused:

i didnt think that it was possible with that chipset....

[brian33x51]

Ahah, a review came up!

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04NzY

Looks like this is a winner with 244's. Totally cool and quiet.

Reviewer also crammed in 3! hard drives and 6800GT.
Of note: mini-PCI wifi card included on the bottom of board!

Current limitations look like only 2 SATA ports (not enough with one of them being external), no SPD/IF connectors and only a single firewire port.

[TenzoR]

oops should have read all the posting

[Hazmat]

I think the Hexus review is the first I've seen where a 3.4 Nocona Xeon is pitted against anything other than an Opteron 250. Good stuff. Interesting comparison with the 244 versus the Xeons, especially considering they are less than half the price for almost the same performance... at least until you need to use an application optimized for hyperthreading, SSE, and/or other Intel goodies. Although I would like to see more benchmarks in this comparison...

I've been waiting for something like this board/case for a long time. The price is good considering it costs about the same as my DK8N alone. Too bad it doesn't have a couple more memory slots. I don't care about NUMA support, but being limited to 2 GB of RAM is unacceptable. I'll be waiting for the next revision.

[benwang]

Originally posted by brian33x51
Ahah, a review came up!

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04NzY

Looks like this is a winner with 244's. Totally cool and quiet.

Reviewer also crammed in 3! hard drives and 6800GT.
Of note: mini-PCI wifi card included on the bottom of board!

Current limitations look like only 2 SATA ports (not enough with one of them being external), no SPD/IF connectors and only a single firewire port.

You can just unplug the eSATA and get two full internal SATA for HDD.

Wireless is Optional and will cost extra, I would estimate a street price of maybe $600-650USD

[benwang]

Originally posted by Heinrich
here is a little preview of it

http://www.todoreviews.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=73&page=1

note in the conclusion they say that the final version will be able to overclock:confused:

i didnt think that it was possible with that chipset....

There will be no overclocking on the zMax-DP.

The preview site has their facts wrong.

[The Doctor]

So... is anyone taking pre-orders for these yet? :D

[B.Slisk]

Played briefly with the machine...

First of all this is actually a very quiet machine, at least when it's idling. But the air blowing out the back is hot. And the PSU sticking out the back is very hot.

Put some load on the CPU's and the fan speed soon increases.

Some of the plastic details in the chassis feel rather flimsy. The lights around the USB ports and the power led shine through the red plastic of the front baffle. The stealth door for the CD flexes significantly when you press the CD eject button. In fact the entire front baffle flexes a bit. Even so it shouldn't break unless you gave if a few good whacks. So get a sandbag, and stop hitting your machine.

Installing Win2K was easy, whish I could say the same for Linux.

Mandrake 9.2 RC1 64-bit stopped half way through CD2.
Redhat Enterprise 3.1 couldn't find the HDD. (SATA4)
Centos 3.1 did finally install, but didn't have drivers for the Nvida NIC.

These were just standard installs. No drivers added, just the vanilla installation. It's probably not to hard to get these Linux versions working, but right now I don't have the time to dig into this.

Don't expect any benchmarks from me any time soon. I just don't have the time for it right now.

[Mloot]

What Opteron model number are you running, B.Slisk?

[B.Slisk]

Originally posted by Mloot
What Opteron model number are you running, B.Slisk? It's a pair of old 244's (as in more than six months old), two Corsair XMS PC3200 512MB registered modules, a WD 250GB drive, a floppy and a CD player. The only thing really sub standard in this build is the graphics card. It

[JediFonger]

i tried pricewatch.com and couldn't find any IWIll SFF dp for sale. is this out yet? i notice one of you have it. how much didya pay for it USD? despite the fact that memory is shared, this system is still an awesome HTPC alternative to anything else on the market... specially HDTV-material playback (like t2:ee). does it live up to opteron's name?

also you guys are complaining about 4 dimm slots... do you HAVE 4 sticks of 1gb ram? i only have 1gb and i thought it was very expensive. $800-1,000 for 4GB is certainly NOT pocket change.

PS. there is NO firewire? what?!?!?!?!? that's ridiculous. i thought this was aimed at DCC! you'd have to waste a PCI slot on a stupid firewire? man!

[[312]Seppuku]

just to help you out, jedi, I'll try to clarify a few things.

The zmaxdp is not for sale yet, the people posting here and on other online reviews have prerelease versions. dual opterons would be massive overkill for playback of hd content, editing of such content on the other hand, is another story. Unlike some misleading pictures would indicate, the board only has 2 dimm slots, and when dealing with high resolution jpegs, high detail 3d models, or video editing, a couple gigs of ram can get eaten up real quick. and certaionly someone looking to drop ~600 bucks on a sff, not including the price of cpu's, storage, or peripheral cards, will be expecting to pay some $$$ for their ram. Hell a pair of opteron 250's will easily run you $1600+

I will grant you i too was surprsied at the lack of firewire support, but considering what this system does bring to the table, i'm willing to look past that.

for a hands on review of the system, if you havn't already seen it, check out the review at hexus :
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD04NzYmdXJsX3BhZ2U9MQ==

If i wasn't so broke, i'd be dieing to get my hands on one of those, my 2400 mp's and 9700 pro aiw are aging rapidly....

[JediFonger]

there IS a fw. i remembered reading the article and the spec had a TI fw solution. i looked at the pix again and found it. it was hidden in the front panel.

PS regards to overkill for HT, as someone else mentioned before... here @2cpu... you don't need excuses for owning duallies =^).

[SUOrangeman]

I'm seriously considering this little monster for my main home machine (current machine specs are below). Admittedly, anything in the ballpark is already overkill for a home PC ... in terms of processing power and the hole burned through my credit card.

Iwill zMAXdp (non-red, if available)
2x Opteron 248/250/+++ (will these ever be available in HE or EE?)
2x 1GB PC3200 Reg
74GB Raptor HD
xxxGB 7200 SATA HD
16x Multi-format DD DL burner
Decent dual-DVI AGP card with single-slot cooling
{HD}TV/FM tuner, perhaps

Would probably want to access third/fourth "backup" HDs and a Zip250 via external SATA/FW/USB2. Of course, I'd prefer SATA if I can get a few more ports from somewhere.

With the nForce?4? darn near imminent, has anyone toyed with the idea of a dual-Opteron SFF with that chipset?

-SUO

[audioaficionado]

Owning a high powered duallie is like having a high-end car that can do over 200MPH/320kMPH. You won't need but a fraction of that speed but just knowing it's there waiting to be pushed makes you feel good about owning it. Heck I'm building a nice P4 3.0c/SB65G2 i865PE Shuttle XPC for the wife and she's only going to use it for email, occasional surfin' and solotaire LOL. However I'll be using it 24/7 for FAH :D

[xevito]

Right I just got mine - but mine is one of the first 'white' ones on the market.

Anyway what a messup...

Firstly my PSU was DOA - not a problem IWill are next daying me a new PSU - wicked work guys.

Next - I am trying to run the following

Dual Opteron 244s (AU stepping NOT AL) thus - needs DDR333.
I attempted 2 * 1GB DDR400 Modules - however, it won't post.



It turns out the CPUs from AMD 1 is a 246 and ones is a 244 - so I have swapped out one and just using a single CPU in CPU0 socket - since it will run fine with 1 CPU.

I just tried a single stick of PC2100ECC Reg however, of course it needs dual channel.

The final spec of my system will be

2 * 244s
2 * 1GB Memory modules (ecc reg ddr333)
2 * 250GB Maxline IIIs
ATi Radeon X800 XT PE
NEC 16X Dual Layer Jobby :)

I have never used a Dual Opteron 'workstation' before - I have used Servers no issues, however this is a brand new kettle of fish and not easy for me to get my head around.

It won't even power up with DDR400 - the board won't do it.

But with 1 stick of RAM it will - of course the memory controller can't see 2 so it iignores and powers up.

I got to phone Crucial tmrw for my new sticks...

So far - love the colour, hate all the fiddling.

[audioaficionado]

That's crazy that DDR400 won't post. Have you tried relaxing the manual timing settings in the BIOS while using the slower stick and then swaping the DDR400 back in?

My Iwill DH800 is quite a diffeant horse but I got two 512Mb dual sticks of less advanced DDR400 ram (cheap) that refuses to post in Auto or SPD so I have to set it up all manually and then it works great.

[xevito]

Originally posted by audioaficionado
That's crazy that DDR400 won't post. Have you tried relaxing the manual timing settings in the BIOS while using the slower stick and then swaping the DDR400 back in?

My Iwill DH800 is quite a diffeant horse but I got two 512Mb dual sticks of less advanced DDR400 ram (cheap) that refuses to post in Auto or SPD so I have to set it up all manually and then it works great.


I would do if I had some cheap or slower ram.

[audioaficionado]

Originally posted by xevito
I would do if I had some cheap or slower ram. Since you can post with one stick, get into the BIOS and try to set it up for DDR400.

[xevito]

It doesn't post with one stick - thats what I am saying.

I have tried one stick and it powers - however since the memory controller is on the CPU I was under the impression that it would only power up and post if 2 sticks are present (dual channel)

I have about 10 sticks of non registered ram.

The only other registered ram is PC2100 single module which I have on my Centrino evaluation system...

[xevito]

Right, now running fine with

2* 246s
2* 512MB DDR333 memory

Just need to really work out if I will keep her - and put in my 250GB hard drives in it and my 1GB modules back from Crucial.

sw33t assssss ;)

also whacked a wifi card in the bottom and got it all working

Shame my XT PE is dead but hey ho.

[The Doctor]

Anyone know if an nForce4 version of the Zmax-DP is on the drawing board?

[PhilH]

http://www.iwill.net/product_2.asp?p_id=36

[catscit]

Xevito: where did you buy it? (and what does it cost bare?)

[Scratch]

How long of a PCI card can you fit in one of these? And if I've got a PCI card plugged in, what type of video card am I going to be limited to, realistically?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Scratch
How long of a PCI card can you fit in one of these? And if I've got a PCI card plugged in, what type of video card am I going to be limited to, realistically?

Anything with a single-slot cooler. Which means (I think) plain vanilla GeForce 6800 or Radeon X800 at a pinch, although I think you can get some single slot versions of the 6800 GT.

Judging from this shot (http://www.2cpu.com/albums/ZMAXdp/zmaxdp_027.sized.jpg) in the 2cpu.com ZMAX-dp gallery, you could probably cram in a PCI card that's nearly as long as the machine itself.

[xevito]

I didn't buy mine - but I think they cost $499 ea at the moment

There is only 50 in the world at the moment.

NF4 - no idea as yet but tbh the perf isnt worth the wait

NF4 should have been nf3 350GB, unless of course you want to have PCI-E and avaliability problems?

You can put in a 6800 Ultra and loose the PCI slot....

[JediFonger]

wtf, 50? how the heck are they making money selling only 50?

[B.Slisk]

They don't.

These 50 that xevito are talking about are just the first sample batch. Well I've got one of them, so I'm happy.

Seems there are some differences between the samples and the production machines though. Hooz reports that the machine he received, I guess this is from the first production run, is rather loud. It seems Iwill decided to take the safe route of running the fans at full speed in the production machines. Rumour has it that a new bios release will enable the temperature controlled fan speed for these machines, though I have no idea if it's true, or when it might be released.

[PhilH]

Anyone seen the final pricing for these lovely beasties? Especially interested in what the price will be here in Australia.

Cheers.

[audioaficionado]

Originally posted by PhilH
Anyone seen the final pricing for these lovely beasties? Especially interested in what the price will be here in Australia.

Cheers. PM benwang. He's an AUS Iwill dealer and I'm sure he'll be glad to quote you a price.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by audioaficionado
PM benwang. He's an AUS Iwill dealer and I'm sure he'll be glad to quote you a price.

Anyone know any friendly UK dealers about these parts? :D

[xevito]

Originally posted by B.Slisk
They don't.

These 50 that xevito are talking about are just the first sample batch. Well I've got one of them, so I'm happy.

Seems there are some differences between the samples and the production machines though. Hooz reports that the machine he received, I guess this is from the first production run, is rather loud. It seems Iwill decided to take the safe route of running the fans at full speed in the production machines. Rumour has it that a new bios release will enable the temperature controlled fan speed for these machines, though I have no idea if it's true, or when it might be released.


It is all down to the BIOS's which are being run. I have the new BIOS now.

[xevito]

Originally posted by The Doctor
Anyone know any friendly UK dealers about these parts? :D

www.armari.co.uk - speak to Dan Goldsmith.

[mrbee]

Hi,

IWILL website has updated specs and a test report with some very interesting data about the zmaxdp.

Test report:
http://www.iwill.net/product_2s.asp?p_id=36&tp=DOCUMENT

Does anybody now a german distributor, google isn't able to find one, or is it a rhetoric question (because there aren't any out there here in Germany) ?

And how much does it cost in UK ?

Cheers

[SUOrangeman]

There's also a new BIOS posted on the 4th as well.

-SUO

[Schwein]

Unfortunately, as is usual with I-Will there seems to be no correlation between their product descriptions and reality.

They can't seem to count how many serial and USB ports they have.

Also they are a little confused as to whether or not they have 10/100 ethernet or 10/100/1000...

They really need to have a little more accuracy in their fact checking department.

All the same I am looking forward to seeing one in the flesh.

[The Doctor]

Well, I'm still waiting to hear back from Amari, but no news is good news, as they say...

Anyone got any idea as to when these are actually going to be available yet? Christmas is rapidly approaching, after all! ;)

[Hooz]

I just tried to flash the latest BIOS from Iwill's site. It wouldn't take for me, but fortunately it didn't get to overwriting the old BIOS so I'm still running.

[audioaficionado]

I assume you all disabled any BIOS write protection in the BIOS and made sure there weren't any BIOS write protect jumpers set on the mother board.

I couldn't flash my BIOS on my Iwill DH800 until I disabled all the BIOS write protection schemes first.

[The Doctor]

Well, I finally heard back from Amari. It might interest you all to know that they'll be generally available in December, at least in the UK, and Armari will be supplying them as ordinary barebones systems as well as prebuilt machines. So with any luck, and allowing for good reviews of the final version of the ZMAXdp, by January we should all be laughing :)

[Hooz]

Originally posted by audioaficionado
I assume you all disabled any BIOS write protection in the BIOS and made sure there weren't any BIOS write protect jumpers set on the mother board.

I couldn't flash my BIOS on my Iwill DH800 until I disabled all the BIOS write protection schemes first. There is no setting in my BIOS for write protection, at least that I can find. And since I didn't get a manual with my ZMAXdp, I'll have to check the website and see if I can find a jumper setting.

[audioaficionado]

I have the AMI BIOS. If you have Phoenix it could be a whole differant feature set. I also have a dual Xeon while you have dual Opteron. I just thought since they were both Iwill there might be some similarities.

[Hooz]

The latest bit of information is that the fan control settings might only be available for the low voltage "HE" Opterons. So, even if I can get a newer BIOS, I may still be screwed.

The noise the ZMAX-dp makes makes it unusable as a regular desktop PC, IMNSHO.

[xevito]

Originally posted by Hooz
The latest bit of information is that the fan control settings might only be available for the low voltage "HE" Opterons. So, even if I can get a newer BIOS, I may still be screwed.

The noise the ZMAX-dp makes makes it unusable as a regular desktop PC, IMNSHO.

I mailed you the latest BIOS, I don't run HE and it works for me :P near silent.

[Hooz]

Originally posted by xevito
I mailed you the latest BIOS, I don't run HE and it works for me :P near silent. When did you send it?

[benwang]

Originally posted by Hooz
The latest bit of information is that the fan control settings might only be available for the low voltage "HE" Opterons. So, even if I can get a newer BIOS, I may still be screwed.

The noise the ZMAX-dp makes makes it unusable as a regular desktop PC, IMNSHO.

The unit you recieved probably had the pre-production PSU without adjustable fans, whether they can "enable" this feature by a simple BIOS update though is probably unlikely.

Final mass production versions will have the thermally adjustable fans on the PSU.

Look at the back of your unit where the sticker is, whats the number on there?

[benwang]

Originally posted by xevito
I didn't buy mine - but I think they cost $499 ea at the moment

There is only 50 in the world at the moment.

NF4 - no idea as yet but tbh the perf isnt worth the wait

NF4 should have been nf3 350GB, unless of course you want to have PCI-E and avaliability problems?

You can put in a 6800 Ultra and loose the PCI slot....

I wouldn't put a 6800Ultra in it. 6800GT is about the limit.... PSU limitations.

[Hooz]

Originally posted by benwang
The unit you recieved probably had the pre-production PSU without adjustable fans, whether they can "enable" this feature by a simple BIOS update though is probably unlikely.

Final mass production versions will have the thermally adjustable fans on the PSU.

Look at the back of your unit where the sticker is, whats the number on there? IMAX000000096

[benwang]

Originally posted by Hooz
IMAX000000096

Yep that would be one of the first ones which won't feature adjustable fans... the fans will just sit at full blast. (This is information I recieved from Iwill, whether or not its fixable by BIOS is always a debatable issue... I've got a couple of the systems here and they all sit at full blast.

[audioaficionado]

Originally posted by Hooz
IMAX000000096 It's fun to be on the cutting edge but then there's that other edge pointing back at you.

I sure hope you get a fix Hooz. Otherwise you'll have to shoehorn in some kind of PWM fan controller to quiet it down without burning it up.

[benwang]

Originally posted by audioaficionado
It's fun to be on the cutting edge but then there's that other edge pointing back at you.

I sure hope you get a fix Hooz. Otherwise you'll have to shoehorn in some kind of PWM fan controller to quiet it down without burning it up.

replacing the fans with a couple which will vary its speed according to temperature should be adequate.

[Hooz]

I didn't look that closely. Are the fans a normal size or are they something funky?

[benwang]

Originally posted by Hooz
I didn't look that closely. Are the fans a normal size or are they something funky?

Last time I checked they were 70mm x 25mm, I'll double check that sometime today.

[The Doctor]

According to the latest issue of Custom PC, a UK magazine, we Brits can expect to pay

[JediFonger]

any more info when this will be released? it's been a long time already, can't find it anywhere.

[The Doctor]

Armari emailed me today to confirm that they are now taking pre-orders for the ZMAXdp, in the UK anyway. Price is

[B.Slisk]

Originally posted by benwang
I wouldn't put a 6800Ultra in it. 6800GT is about the limit.... PSU limitations. Tried a 6800GT in one and got a lot of strange problems. As soon as a 3D application started to throw its weight around things got out of hand. Popped in an old R9700 and were back in business. A co-worker took upon himself to diagnose that 6800GT. The next day he could report that when running in his PC at home (DFI mobo, Athlon64, Zippy 460W (HP2-6460P)), there were no problems.

I do not know for sure that this was a problem with the power, but that's definitely in the hat. Right now there isn't much else rattling about in that hat either.

By the way, it is proving to be much harder to get that 6800GT back to the office than it was to find a volunteer willing to test it. And I can

[JediFonger]

how many watts is in the case? 350w? that's definitely not enough to run 6800gt. plus it's not like a PC Power&Cooling PS where size doesn't matter.

[prodikal]

I believe you're incorrect. Check the review at hexus.net they ran a 6800GT in theirs no problem. Also I pulled this straight off of www.armari.co.uk

We built a number of test configurations to measure the overall power consumption at idle at the desktop and with the ZMAXdp running a multithreaded Linpack test, while also running a heavy geometry and shader application on the GPU. This would come pretty close to the maximum load you could ever expect to get in everyday use.

Our test configuration consisted of: 2 x AMD Opteron processors, 2 x 1GB DDR400 ECC REG memory modules, 1 x 74GB 10K rpm Western Digital Raptor, an nVidia 6800GT graphics card, Sony DRU-700A Dual layer DVD-Burner and floppy. (The 6800GT requires about the same power as a Quadro FX4000)

2 x AMD Opteron 246 HE (55watt) processors. IDLE power at desktop - 144Watts, Peak Power - 201Watts
2 x AMD Opteron 246 standard processors. IDLE power at desktop - 170Watts, Peak Power - 229Watts
2 x AMD Opteron 248 standard processors. IDLE power at desktop - 187Watts, Peak Power - 256Watts

We believe that running Opteron 250 processors would be close to the limit of the PSU with this configuration, so probably not a good idea for extended periods. Using a mid range Graphics card like a Quadro FX700/FX1100 would probably keep things within sensible limits, but we will update this page once we've tested out this configuration.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well I fancy building one of these. I see that the 90nm Opterons are shipping now so hopefully can get 2 of them soon. I'd hope they run cooler than the 130nm models which will be good for the Zmaxdp and noise. Maybe 2x246's for me.

Then pop in a 6800GT and a Raptor and large IDE HDD (Thinking to keep the rear SATA port working incase I want to add an external HDD via it at some point). 2GB of RAM...

Should be a lovely little system :)

Just depends on availability, prices of all parts and so on so still not set in stone on this idea.

[prodikal]

I also read in the news somewhere that they would be including the PowerNow Technology in opterons to allow for throttling and lower temp. I cant recall the exact figures but Ill post if I find them.

EDIT: I didnt find the link but I found another article about this system mildly interesting.

AFTER MONTHS of delays, Taiwanese manufacturer Iwill will begin mass production of a dual AMD Opteron CPU small form factor PC next week, according to a source at the company. The ZMAXdp will be the world's first dual-CPU small form factor workstation.

[quote]Unhappy with the performance of prototypes, Iwill engineers redesigned the system repeatedly, improving the cooling and power to cope with the highest power Opteron 250 CPUs, and moving the AGP slot to handle the largest graphics cards.

Our source said the ZMAXdp barebones (motherboard, CPU cooling system and case only) would be priced "well over $500", and, in fact, reports from system integrator, Armari, which has a close relationship with Iwill, suggest the price could exceed $700.

Although net profit per unit will be very good, design costs have also been high, and the ZMAXdp looks like something of a loss-leader for Iwill. The company does not expect huge sales of this workstation, with perhaps 2,000 predicted to be sold by Christmas, but does expect it to have a valuable positive effect on the company's brand image.

If fitting two CPUs in such a tiny box seemed hard, it's nothing compared to another product on the drawing board at Iwill: a dual-CPU, dual-PCI Express SLI-compatible small form factor PC. Providing enough power will be a serious difficulty with this concept so if it makes it onto the market

[FastLaneJBUK]

Yeah I have also read that. Will help out in the future even more.

I'm a little disappointed that this system has enter mass production but still there is only 1 main review and a write up that I've found. I need more info to read on to make the wait go quicker ;)

Defi gonna be no overclocking options in the final production machines? What about clocking from software as in NvTune?

[FastLaneJBUK]

For people with dual CPU rigs, you sure do browse and post slow :P

Just playing.

[SUOrangeman]

No slow browsing, it's just hard to chat about something we can't buy and no "after release" reviews. :)

... until now ?

Lynn Computer ... $689 (http://www.lynncomp.com/item390003.html) (listed as "ETA DEC"). See the "Motherboard/Model" pull-down menu.

-SUO

[The Manny]

(bing bong) Who is it? Umm... Candygram... (bah-dum) ... ;)

http://www.lynncomp.com/zmax_angle.jpg

[SUOrangeman]

It's almost a shame that there aren't (m)any non-wireless/non-network/modem uses for Mini-PC. I'd happily toss the WiFi card and replace it with something I'd actually use like SATA, FireWire800, or SoundStorm2 if they ever appear in Mini-PCI.

-SUO

[FastLaneJBUK]

The problem with that, even if there was SATA Mini PCI cards is how would you hook anything up to it in the trap door? You'd have to mod it. Plus that's already on the mobo.

Firewire 800 and Soundstorm 2 would be the same problem.

I'd be happy with a mini PC card with WiFi (b/g) and Bluetooth which I thinks exists but haven't double checked.

[dprimm]

Now that gigabit is getting on the motherboard, I can see several uses for these boxes. KVM switch for several of them.

Now, if they would put firewire in the back... (I do not like USB for data intensive stuff)

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by dprimm
Now, if they would put firewire in the back... (I do not like USB for data intensive stuff)

My thoughts exactly. Even though it's faster on paper, I find USB2.0 sadly lacking regarding speed and consistency and reliability when compared to FireWire.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well if your taking about external HDD's then it might be worth considering what they have to offer to connect to the external SATA port as that would be the best option and maybe also cheaper than say having a firewire HDD.

Just looses the portability if you need to put it to multiple machines as not seen it on other PC's before.

[SUOrangeman]

No, I'm not really off my rocker. :) If I could control my internal drives off of a Mini-PCI controller, I could then use the motherboard chipset's SATA ports for external devices.

I agree that SoundStorm2 or FW800 on Mini-PCI would then present the issue of how to get connectors to the back/sides/front of the case.

By the way, Valuedisk offers an external enclosure that can handle an IDE drive inside but USB2, FW400, *and* SATA for data connectivity back to the workstation. Portability issue resolved? Those Seagate 400GB IDE drives for $250 look mighty tasty.

-SUO

[FastLaneJBUK]

So is the external SATA port on the zmaxdp a standard for external SATA ports or just something that Iwill had dreamed up? I thought maybe the latter because never seen it before.

Yes that sounds really nice, I was actually thinking of using one internal SATA drive and one IDE so I could keep the external SATA port active. I don't see myself using it but you never know and there really isn't any performance difference otherwise.

Anyone have any idea when the 90nm Opterons would hit? I imagine they would be cheaper than the 246HE by a lot (Maybe more than the normal 246 initially) but still with low power output. Maybe not quite so low at idle but could be lower at full load. Either way if they don't cost much more I think it would be worth it to keep the wattage, heat and hence noise down.

Cannot wait to build one of these puppies. Had 2 dual CPU machines in the past but just on a P 3.0Ghz, HT isn't quite the same. Hehe.

[SUOrangeman]

I don't think that the external SATA ports are any different than internal ones. I only hope that someone starts selling data-only cables with reinforced, yet standard connectors. I haven't heard folks complaining about the flimsy connectors lately, but taking an non-interlocking internal interface outside of the case will easily expose it to more physical abuse, accidental or otherwise.

-SUO

[FastLaneJBUK]

Ah that's good to know. Yeah SATA cables are quite weak but behind the case without moving it generally it should be OK.

[SUOrangeman]

So, ....

... with the zMAXdp now in mass production (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20081), and ...

... 246/248 Opterons now shipping in 90nm (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20041216025034.html) (we don't need no stinkin' EE/HE! But, they would be nice!), and ...

... the x52s coming in February (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20252) (with no price increases, forcing older chips down in price, i.e. sub-$500 Opteron 248), ...

... March 2005 is looking pretty good for me. How about you?

Dual-core and/or SLI would be the icing, but I don't want to be too greedy! :)

-SUO

[Sesshoumaru]

How much for the barebones system? Anyone know for sure yet?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Sesshoumaru
How much for the barebones system? Anyone know for sure yet?

As I said above - in the UK Armari are selling the barebones system for

[FastLaneJBUK]

Also according to Armari the 90nm's might not be so good for the Zmaxdp.

I'm gonna get a rig with 246HE's. OK it costs more but they are even lower wattage than the 90nm's and heat and quietness is important.

[SUOrangeman]

> Also according to Armari the 90nm's might not be so good for the Zmaxdp.

Makes me wonder why they'd say something like that? Less strain on the PSU is a good thing, no? In all other aspects, a 248 should be a 248.

By the way, Lynn Computer now quotes a $786 price (up from $689). They also say January now instead of December. These changes have been made within the last week.

-SUO

[prodikal]

Yea unfortunately I think the total price shipped to my house would be a little over 1000$ USD Unfortunately I just couldnt justify it b/c I set an 800$ cap on this project b/c I can just build a new full tower for that. So TigerK8W here I come.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by prodikal
Yea unfortunately I think the total price shipped to my house would be a little over 1000$ USD Unfortunately I just couldnt justify it b/c I set an 800$ cap on this project b/c I can just build a new full tower for that. So TigerK8W here I come.

Doesn't the Tiger K8W have several issues though, relating to the AMD 8151 chipset? Such as very dodgy graphics card compatabilities and poor SATA performance?

[FastLaneJBUK]

I think Armari only recommend 246HE's if your constantly running the CPU's hard, 2 HDD's and a top of the line graphics card. My main concern would be the HDD's as I've had a few fail in my time and excess heat is not good for them.

[prodikal]

Originally posted by The Doctor
Doesn't the Tiger K8W have several issues though, relating to the AMD 8151 chipset? Such as very dodgy graphics card compatabilities and poor SATA performance?

mmm. I heard nothing but good things about it? My original choice was the MSI K8T800 FAR but I have OCZ ram already and I hear a lot of problems with that and i have no one near here to try and trade with.

[JediFonger]

is it a true statement that amd chipsets in general have finnicky compatibility issues with graphics boards and various PCI boards?

[JediFonger]

PS, can't find it on pricewatch. can anyone link me to an online store selling this?

[einstein_pi]

Its unfortunate that the price point is so high on these. If the chipset/box had supported PCI Express or memory for each processer I may be able to see spending $700+.

As it is, my limit was very much stretched to $650 for the box the itself, and it seems that I will be shopping for a different system in a few months when I build a new box.

Very disappointing.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well I'm getting one of these babys in a few weeks hopefully, nicely kitted out. Cannot wait :)

[skewray]

Pardon, I may have missed this. Is there a ship-date for the ZMAXdp? I am getting tired of checking Pricegrabber every day...

[FastLaneJBUK]

Armari should have them in the first week of January.

[Neb]

http://www2.ko-soku.co.jp/sales/cube_b.htm

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20041225/image/nizp1.html

looks like they're expecting to get them in stock 12/28, with a price of 738,000 Yen, which is about $712 USD :eek:

[JediFonger]

do ya'll think it is worth it? i mean if you really wanted a GOOD opty dually it's gonna cost way more than $2k with everything thrown in.

[Hooz]

Well... I did get the BIOS update for my ZMAX-dp and I have good results to report. At idle it is now almost silent. Under load the fans spin up to insane levels again, but I've found that if I set the fan spin-up temp to 60C and only run my two F@H clients at 75% useage, it stays quiet.

Now that the last issues are taken care of I can get down to finishing my review. Look for my full review shortly after the first of the year.

[FastLaneJBUK]

Well surely any good dual system would cost quite a bit regardless of if it's in this SFF case or a normal full tower case.

Surely when you factor in a good full tower case at say 100 quid. A PSU for it at say 70 quid and a motherboard for say 150 quid. Also your getting the cooling for the 2 CPU's included, a huge copper heatsink which isn't going to be cheap. So say 50 quid for 2 CPU's to be cooled and that's 370 quid. The Zmaxdp also has wireless capabilities so personally I think the price isn't that bad. Your not paying that much extra to get it in a small case.

I'm getting...

ZmaxDP
2x246HE's
2GB RAM DDR 400
2x300GB Maxtor Maxline 3 SATA drives.
Sony DRU710A
Geforce 6800GT Dual DVI
b/g Wireless Mini PCI card

And I'll be sticking in a Freeview PCI TV Card too if it doesn't block the cooling for the AGP card.

Yes it's costing a lot but it should be kick ass too :)

[daytrade]

Anyone know which distributors in ther US are going to carry the Zmax DP besides LynnComp?

[B.Slisk]

Today I received the first shipment of ZMAX-dp from the production run. I took a quick look at one of them to see what changes I could find compared to the evaluation sample.

There were only a few things that I found. For instance, they

[FastLaneJBUK]

One thing I am curious about is the noise level on the front audio out and mic in. My first Shuttle that I had was just fine in this regard however the second one had a horrible amount of noise on both of them. Electrical interference.

I'm hoping the Zmaxdp doesn't have this problem. I'm no audiophile so I don't need it to sound perfect by any means but I don't want hissing and popping in my ears all the time. Even with sound playing the hissing and popping on my last Shuttle was audiable above it. Extremely bad. Obviously the rear ports were fine because they didn't use any cabling.

Anyone tried it on a preproduction or production machine?

Also anything new in the BIOS for the production models?

[SUOrangeman]

Hopefully, B.Slisk's customers will be posting here soon! :)

> Also anything new in the BIOS for the production models?

I noticed that Iwill posted a now BIOS update on the 20th. That BIOS release was listed as "Award BIOS," while the older release was list as "AMI Bios" (from ?July/August? perhaps).

-SUO

[FastLaneJBUK]

Ah yes a new BIOS. Well spotted.

It's not normal in my opinion for a mobo maker to switch say from AMI to Award or via versa on a mobo. I wonder why they did that. The version number of the Award one seems to be higher and also newer so I don't expect they will be giving you a choice of either but have switched to Award for some reason.

Are the shipping ones on Award or AMI BIOS's I wonder?

I tried to download it to see if there was a change log and it says page not found when I click to download it, the older one will download fine though.

[SUOrangeman]

I just saw the zMAXdp ad at the top of the forums. Nice. :)

Anyway, there is a Russian review of this unit linked on Iwill's site. babelfish wouldn't translate the URL, but it seems that they tested it with:

2

[FastLaneJBUK]

Yes I did think it was a strange machine to pit it up against. Still, another review and award for Iwill is good. It must have cost them a lot to design this baby and in testing so hopefully they will make and sell enough to make it worth designing future models as well.

All the publicity they can get will help in this goal I'm sure.

[kevikev]

Any resellers in the US yet?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Doctor
[B]As I said above - in the UK Armari are selling the barebones system for

[M0biUS]

I ask the same thing yesterday so you get the same answer as I got ;)

http://www.lynncomp.com/index.html?loadfile=item390003.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and the under motherboard/model you can find it

[kevikev]

Heh, sorry about that. I'd checked lynncomp before and wasn't sure if they were actually going to stock it or if the page was a placeholder. Doesn't look like a very well done page.

Anyone ordered from lynncomp yet?

Originally posted by M0biUS
I ask the same thing yesterday so you get the same answer as I got ;)

http://www.lynncomp.com/index.html?loadfile=item390003.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and the under motherboard/model you can find it

[daiSho]

somebody slap me. :)

i'm really cons