Let's fight against PC noise !

[pastor]

I propose this new thread to share experiences about reducing pc noise, with others users.
i spend a lot of time working on computer and this permanent noise drive me crazy !!
also i want a familly/girlfriend/friends/etc FRIENDLY pc

So for my next workstation (i plan to built a dual palomino 1.2~1.5 ghz system soon) , i don't want to let this factor vacant...

it's difficult to find reviews about Cases, PSU, Fans on the net that really talks about noise

3 reasons for this fact :

* the measure of the noise is subjective (except for the rare owners of a "a DBa sensor equipment")
* most of the reviewers are crazy geeks who just have in mind : "damn with those 41

[MichaelMR2]

when U can hear the fans over Your headphones in the quiet parts of DuesEx, It's to loud.

Basically, i don't mind noise, as long as it's elsewhere...Sooooo

Water cool everything in your case(maybe even a radiator inside the case with a V-quiet fan to super cool the air in the case, then have water pump, Primary Large radiator and everything else loud in a fridge(great insulator for cooling and SOUND)

sooo, i kinda agree with ya..Quiet is good.

but weather I'm gonna let A little noise interfer with me being able to get another 300/400mhz outta my system? No way

[Raiza]

as a way of cutting down noise I've started installing big (120mm) fans and running them at 5 volts instead of 12 simply by swapping the yellow and red wires on the connector - seems to produce a good air flow with very little noise

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

My system's too small to keep all my still-biulding watercooling gear in my cute case, so I'm putting it in an old AT case. Planning on getting a set of 4 garden-hose spigots, and using them to connect the systems together with reinforced food-grade vinyl hose (I happen to have a set of 4 heavy-duty garden-hose ends), so I can put the noisy parts (Pump, 120mm fan for the DD Cube) in another room.

If I insulate the sockets on my VP6, I might even use outside-air to cool the radiator, so I get some really chilly temps in the winter (and so the heat stays out in the summer).

[pastor]

* raiza : damn it's a good idea !
but i wonder how this could be efficient if the fans holes are not also 120 mm wide .
can u give more details of your modifications ?
(cos i've already make wider the holes of my psu on my current config to atenuate noise... it atenuate a little the noise but damn it was a painful task ... i mean cutting the metal with a cutting pliers :) )

* hey psycho ! it's a nice challenge to make ur own watercooling gear but unfortunatly for me i'm not so much courageous to make my own experience lab :)
i think i'll jump to watercooling solution when they will be a more
oem oriented approved system .. then i'll be ready to buy a 200$-300$ watercooling system i think .... but for now .... i prefer to forget the 10 or 20 % extra speed i'll get in the case of extreme overclockings on those damn hot athlons rather than a stable workstation that won't crash on a crucial moment of my work
(but that is personal)


* damn i think i'll change my choise for the processor heat dissipator i choose in my last post :
the molex aka Antec JetCool failed to makes work the athlon at 1.53 Mhz ( however it was not athlon MP 20% less energetical....... ) in this Game PC heat dissipators review (where fan noise is rated) :

http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=athlon1600hsf&page=11&mscssid=&tp=


on the other hand they rate the Alpha PAL6035 pretty well for both efficiency and low noise level abilities ...
does anybody have alternative experience with those Alpha PAL6035 ?

[x0n]

Well, I'm building my dual 1.2MP box right now. Bought a pair of thermaltake fans rated at 31CFM at 28dB, if those rating are even close to reality they should work pretty well on many heat sinks...personally I'll be using 2 thermoengines, pretty good cooling from what i've read and light enough so sticking 2 on the board shouldn't break it :p.

I was also looking into the SK-6 though there seem to be 2 versions the normal and a SK-6ab that's lighter (although haven't seen any reviews on it or places that sell it)

Any case, as the 1.2MP run about as hot as a 1ghz thunderbird heat shouldn't be too big of a problem. All this is going into a lian-li pc60 with an enermax PS, the stock Adda fans doesn't seem too loud, if they turn out otherwise I might look into other solutions. Right now I'm just waiting for everything to arrive we'll see how loud this setup gets.

[minitaz]

Originally posted by pastor
[B

on the other hand they rate the Alpha PAL6035 pretty well for both efficiency and low noise level abilities ...
does anybody have alternative experience with those Alpha PAL6035 ? [/B]

was running a p3@7.5*150. full load temperature was 50+ when using the original Intel HSF. after upgrading to the Alpha, it managed to keep the temperature down to abt 41~43 at full load. the noise level is slightly higher than that of the Intel HSF.

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Thermosonic's ThermoEngines apparently work VERY well- I have a pair and love them. Nice, solid (depending on who ya talk to) Aluminum core running up the middle, right tot he center of the fan. Now, if they drilled most of that out, and replaced it with copper, it might be even better than those all-copper heatsinks.

Does the ThermoEngine work with AMD CPU's?

[Raiza]

Hi pastor - yes i make bigger holes - or have a mesh side/front on the case so i don't need holes - this (http://www.isys2.com/ikeacasemod.html) is one of mine. The other case I've done this with is one of those Suntek plastic translucent cases - a lot easier to cut holes in than metal. I've also seen a mod somewhere for altering fan voltage on motherboard fan headers to 6v, but I can't remember where,

[x0n]

Originally posted by PsycoBob[Q2]
Does the ThermoEngine work with AMD CPU's?

Quoted to work with 1.5Ghz Athlons....( I don't know about that..but) so yes they work with AMDs

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

They'd work fine with 1.5ghz AMD.... but maybe not if you want to overclock that kind of CPU (Why bother?).

Intel still has one big upside to AMD.... My power bill. An AMD version of my box'd draw twice as much.

[anatolli]

PsycoBob
water proof your sockets anyway. Trust me. When I set up my water cooler, I didn't waterproof the first time, and on my dual p3 rig, with NO, NONE, ZIP, ZERO peltier, I soaked a proc (P3 700 @ 700 :( ). You will thank yourself, and maybe me, later if you go ahead and water proof 'em now. BTW, when my proc died, it was about 80F in my room, humidity was around 30%-40%. Middle of the summer. It can, and will happen to you. Head my warning, young water Jedi :D

anatolli

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

That's 'Water-Jedi Trainee,' thank you very much.

I prolly will anyway- paranoia. I have this nice water-based clearcoat stuff, mostly used for wood, that dries to a hard, nonconductive finish fairly quickly. If I remember wtf the name of the stuff is, I'll post it. Use that on as much as I can, then use some of this super-dense closed-cell foam I've got.... :D

And I happen to have a tube of RTV silicone here, left over from a water-tight GFCI extension-cord plug I had to put on.... didn't need the whole thing to fill the casing, only about 1/3. (tube is about 2x the size of a large toothpaste tube- overkill, but it was actually cheaper than the smaller size.)

I just need to get my spare system (Celery 533) running, so I can survive the 1-4 days I'll be w/o a computer while I wait for stuff to dry, and cut holes in my nice aluminum case..... You know that back fan, under the PSU, but above the slots for the cards? They COULD have put in 2, if they'd bothered spacingthings right. Instead I'll use the 'dead-space' under that fan to mount the pass-thru's for the coolant hoses.

Edit: spelling corrections.

[pastor]

* Raiza : okay i understand now !
those IKEA guys have always something we want to buy !! :)
...
Damn those crazy cats are always going to impossible places !!! LOL


* something wich look very simple and may be efficient ( in the case u can slow down the Fan RPM )

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1526



* also i found some procesors fans wich seems very quiet :

Senyo Denki :

80x80x25

109R0812H402 : 1.56W, 2900trs/min, 29 dBA pour 36.4 CFM

109R0812M402 : 0.72W, 2350trs/min, 23 dBA pour 29.3 CFM

(source : french : http://www.presence-pc.com/news/index.php3?search=Senyo+Denki+&Submit.x=19&Submit.y=15)

[pastor]

found info about a monster fan !!

http://www.chillblast.com/reviews/silverado.htm

the silverado appear to compete in efficiency with the Global Win FOP 38 super bad ass chrome lookin but ..... without any noise !!!!
however the size,weight & price could be a problem ....

[MichaelMR2]

what's this about 120 mm fans bein big??

Comon guys, let's start gettin 250mm fans happenin in out cases..

the local store near me sells them for next tah nothing.

And it's for a PC, try looking at the Car fans, Now Ur cooking with gas...hehehe 35 cm diameter fans oooOOOOOOOOOoooohhhhh yeah!

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Well, there was at least one guy who made a case out of PVC pipe and a box-fan (the ones that are a bit under a meter high) for one side......

I think I have a pic of one somewhere (downside to twin 60gig hdd's and lots of Rar files.... win2k can't search THRU the files yet... and I have stuff stashed everwhere.)

[Patchmaster]

Another approach to taming the noise would be to put rheostats on all the fans. Then you'd be able to dial up the noise/cooling ratio you're comfortable with. Rheostats that will work with all but the most power hungry fans are not very expensive. A little bit of solder, drill a couple holes, and you're all set with fully adjustable fans.

[pastor]

yah sounds good! it will allow us to set the ventilation power to the minimum needed ....

do u have an idea for the rheostat models we can mix with Pc Fans ?

thx for your help

[pastor]

anandtech is running a wide socketA Cooler roundup (with noise rating) :

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1532&p=3

his advice for cooling with efficiency and silence :

Alpha PAL8045 with Papst fan (8412NGL unit)
Anand say that it seems even more quiet than the silverado and his efficiency is enough to cool an Athlon 1.4 GHz ( so it will be enough for a 1.4 ~ 1.53 palomino i guess )

hope that helps

[jacques daniel]

this alpha cooler seems really good !
just hope it will be available soon !
:rolleyes:

[glitch]

hey, any of you know if Lian Li cases are quiet? i'm thinking of throwing down the coin for one.

i have an enermax whisper power supply which seems very nice.

now i need to replace the stock fans on my CPU's -- dual PIII's.

then i have some fans on my HD's to keep them cool... those seem pretty noisy.

recommendations are encouraged.

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

How are the HDD fans mounted?
The ones in my coolermaster are in front of the HDD's, blowing toward the back of the case. Nice, quiet Sunons, but Panaflow's would work too. You really don't need that much to keep them cool, especially with air from outside the case, and this pair of 80mm's works wonders.

My case has a total of 4 fans, plus the 2 in the Enermax 431. With just those running, it's nice and quiet. Turn on the 60mm CPU fans, and it gets lots noisier.

If you want a really quiet system, boot and install always-running appz like your firewall on a Laptop drive, with the stuff like games on an IDE drive that idles after 20 minutes. Much as I like my 7200rpm HDD's, I'm eventually going to move over to booting off a 3gb 3500 rpm 2.5" Hdd. The CPU fans are pretty noisy.... An oversized heatsink on a nice, cool CPU, with a slower, larger fan will keep the noise down with a fan-adapter.

Sleeping in the same room with this beast can be tough, just from the HDD noise. Fortunately, with the case sides on, I have enough airflow to actually turn off my CPU fans, and not have anything get dangerously hot, even at full load. :D Well, I'm ok on nights below 70F. I'm moving to watercooling both due to noise, and because I had a CPU fan commit suicide a few weeks ago. Nice, hi-grade double-ball fan, too.

[glitch]

thanks for the advice.

i bought some fans that screw onto the top of the drive. they are metal and have two fans that say "quiet" on them but sound very loud to me.

the laptop drive idea is interesting. i just bought an adaptor so i could transfer data from a laptop that died. but i use the drives to much with the kind of work i do. i'm frequently loading files that are 10-20MB. i'm about to get a 15K drive.

i think i will just get really long cables for everything and stick the computer in the basement.

in my old office i had 11 computers running for a while, 9 of them in rackmounts. that was loud, but i got used to it. then i moved them out and my server sounded loud so i moved that to the basement. then my desktop sounded loud. when i moved offices, my desktop moved before i did and i was stuck there for a while with a 700MHz sony vaio laptop, networked to all my other machines elsewhere in the building. that was heaven, but it made the air conditioning sound loud.

oh, i also bought some fans that take one of the faceplate spots where CD drives go... which i'm now thinking is a BAD IDEA... plus they don't fit in the friggin toolless case.

[Kampf]

This is a GREAT thread guys, lots of good info and suggestions. Just a few observations i've made:

The 3 120mm fans i have in my Liteon FS020 are those cool Panaflo aluminum ones. I don't recall their CFM rating at ~2400RPM, but the best thing about them is not that they're quieter, but that the noise is lower in frequency. It's not low enough to be boomy, but not buzzy, like a fast, 5000 rpm 80mm.

Now that i think of it, i should have cut out the grilles over the fans when i first got the case, but i didn't even have them all filled and had to wait for fans till later. This is one nice way to help cut down on turbulence, decrease noise and increase flow.

Watercooling, done right, could almost completely eliminate fan noise. Problem is, you're left with hard drives, noisy optical drives, and whatever fans are left on add-in cards.

I've considered purchasing a db meter from Radio Shack, as they're only about $40 for the digital versions. I'd like to see how loud my home and workplace are with all of these computers.

Keep up the great input!

[tbone]

i run a pair of panasonic L1A 120mm fans (69 cfm/29db) in the front of my box, and a pair of enermax thermal control 80mm fans out the back. the 80s have a thermistor that i've taped to hard drives: as the drives heat up, the fans spin faster(louder). the ps is an enermax 431, which also has a thermal control fan in it.
for my cpu's i run a pair of vantec fce-62540d's which have the delta black label 7000rpm fans. they are just too noisy! with 2 of 'em running i could hear 'em in the next room! so i dropped 'em down to 7volts (approx 4000 rpm) and am happily (and quietly) hanging around 100F on both piii 933s.

my personal take on noise: don't put in any fan over 30db!
(the panasonic L1A line is sweet: nothing over 30db)

i can hear my box running but it's pumping nearly 140cfm! i figure it cycles all the air in the room (~320 sq ft) thru the box 2-3 times an hour.
which brings us to the next problem: dust. i'm currently using aluminum mesh filters, which load up with dust and need vacuuming about once a month. i just got in some plastic covers with foam filter inserts, but haven't played with them yet. maybe a pantyhose mod on the filters...

[EC]

Beside the Acoustic Noise, how about fight against electric Noise?

1. Noise from A/C source.
2. High frequence noise from High freq. CPU
3. electric Noise from Heat sink fan.
4. From M/b LED and/or case LED.
5. Noise from Electrical Capasiter with bad soldering work.
6. Noise from loose connector. etc

EC

[pastor]

-> kampf : u right, cutting out the aluminium grids next to the fans help a lot to reduce the noise (air friction)
but my advice is to do it before installing the electronics parts
so u can use a hole-maker tool ( :p sorry i don't know the english name of this tool )
if not i guess it will be dangerous so u will be obliged to use a cutting pliers tool and damn! , my hands remember it painfully !!


link to the papst fans reseller :

http://www.frozen-silicon.de

search for Papst 8412 NGL

(this 80mm fan is 12 DBa rated !!!! )

[pietrocm]

well, in some PS i had the pleasure of breaking they used thermo-resistors, which are sort of automatic rheostact that react to temperature. just have to figure out the temperature range we want them for, and the voltage; it is always a good thing to add and overriding swich, so we can turn our fans at full speed at any time.I'm going to look if I find any link for this components.

[pastor]

this german reseller :

http://www.pc-mac2000.com

(alas only french and german speaking) seems to have Alpha PAL8045T coolers in stock ( 57

[pastor]

i've found an alternative for the heatsink fan

for a better efficiency but a slighty louder noise than the 8412NGL papst :

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/alarmandaccesories/silencerfan/

(28 CFM - 20 Dba)

[Woody419]

Here is another site I discovered about making a silent PC, it has reviews of both the Papst 8412NGL, Panasonic Panaflo FBA08A12L1A, and Silencer fans, along with a lot of other interesting stuff.
http://fredrik.hubbe.net/watercool.html

W~

[spikegifted]

i guess i'm getting enough of the amount of noise coming out of my rigs... :(

i've 4 rigs in my room (see sig.) and there're 2 case fans on my server and workstation (front and back, 80mm each) and 4 fans each in my main rig and gaming rig (3 case fans + 120mm blowhole :D). to top it all off, i've a golden orbs (which are not noisy) in my server (slot1) and workstation (s370)... hedgehog all copper hsf's in my main rig with 6800rpm sunon fans. in my gaming rig, i've a thermalengine with another sunon fan. there're an range of drive coolers, card coolers, slot fans...

as you can see, there's a lot of fans, quite a bit of air-flow and lots of noise!! :mad:

last week, i finally order a pair of pcmods.com rheostat kits (one each for my main rig and gaming rig) and a pair of 120mm panaflo low volume (also low noise) fans... so, at least my blow holes are not making all that much noise even when i've the fans turned all the way up... a pair of thermalengine has been used to replace the hedgehogs in my main rig... guess what, thermalengine kicks ass - even compare with the hedgehogs! :D

now that i've seen the performance of panaflo fans, i've just ordered a bunch of 80mm fans to replace my existing case fans... by the time they go in, my room should be a lot of quieter... :)

[pastor]

apparently, the tyan tiger MP does not provide mounting holes onboard to fix this alpha pal8045 cooler :(

an other solution maybe an alpha 6035 with an eventual 60->80mm fan cone adapter (the 6035 use mounting clip system)
so i can keep a quiet low speed rotation 80mm fan
i 'm going to seek if it's possible

update:

found this adapter here :
http://www.pc-mac2000.com/Shopping_ventillateurs_divers.html

but this resellers may be difficult to trade with

new update :

http://www.highspeedpc.com/ sell the adaptor for 13$

[pastor]

it seems that our germans friends are more advanced in noise control stuff :

this german resseler seems to have good fans :

http://www.blacknoise.com/cooler.htm


Look at the USF S2 FAN 80 mm for instance : 29 CFM - 19 DB !!! + fan monitoring :) )


Also this case seems nice : Noiseblocker Ultra Silent Bigtower Extrem PRO :
seek here -> http://www.com-tra.de/products/Case/index.htm

and all the noise control stuff on 1 page :

http://www.com-tra.de/products/Noiseblocker/index.htm


i hope we can find this stuff on others international resellers soon ....

[pastor]

i tried to simulate the 2 80mm Fan on the Tiger MP to be sure they fit well

so i took the tigerMP pict in the 2 cpu review then i resized it to 305 X 262 mm ( the official dimension )
then i placed 2 80 mm square to see if it fit ....

well it seems that i'll need to sandpaper a bit each fan cos there is a little overlap but not so much ( ~ 2 mm )

see the attached pict ...

well if u have something to add ...

[TBird]

As a latecomer to this thread, I've taken the time to read through it and found it interesting. However, there are at least two schools of thought here; one group would rather have max performance and damm the noise... and that's OK. The other group (I think) is looking for the "strong, silent type" of solution.

I built this Tiger setup to use at work, and unfortunately my choice of HSF was performance oriented and not quiet. Now I realize my folly because I can't hear my friggin'radio. Since the majority of us won't be OC'ing this board, I tend to think a good number of Tiger users will be more interested in performance as a workstation... and probably would prefer a very quiet HSF solution.

My Antec SX1040 has four built-in mounts for case fans, and I've added two Enermax Thermals that will ramp up the speed if the internal case temp gets warm. Each fan has a thermal sensor on a 8" lead that is separate from the 3-pin connector. The Tiger may not even need four case fans... so that's an option... remove the two Antecs and use one Enermax in the front, one in the back. Frankly, my HSFs are drowning out everything else... so I don't think the case fans are a _big_ issue.

It now appears that the ALPHA8045 is not intended for the TIGER as there are no mount holes... so if a 80mm low rpm but reasonable airflow solution is desired... it'll have to be via funnel adapters which reduce the efficiency of the 80's a little bit. I started another thread on solutions for the Tiger, but perhaps there's better info here and coming with addtional posts.

If you take a look at the stock AMD Thunderbird 1.4 retail HSF, it appears to be a 60mm X 12mm device. The HS itself is aluminum, just a thick extrusion, and it extends over the ZIF on two sides. It's pretty unremarkable when you look at it from a performance point of view. But the bottom line is that this dopey setup is adequate (and obviously AMD approved) to cool a _hotter_ cpu than we're using. So maybe we should all take a deep breath, step back, and not look at performance solutions, but instead, look at what is the minimum noise HSF that'll do the job?

It almost looks like any 60mm fan that runs at around 4000-4500 rpm and moves 25cfm might be adequate when mounted to a fairly ordinary heat sink. Fans are cheap enough, but heat sinks are expensive. My next move is to try a bunch of different fans on my OCZ Copper Gladiators before I buy something else. And probably the cheapest thing to buy is someone's stock AMD 1.4 Thunderbird setup!

Fire Away with ideas!

TBird

[hummer010]

For my T-Bird 1.4@1.5, I am using a Swiftech MC462A, which is super loud. The Sanyo-Denki fan kicks ass for cooling, but I could hear the fan with headphones on!! I wanted to cool the chip well, but I wanted it to be quieter. Here's what I came up with:

First, I cut a 92mm hole in the side panel of my case, right in front of the heatsink. I mounted a 92mm Panaflo L1A in there. It is rated for 43cfm at 27db, much better noise than the 46db Sanyo-Denki, and not bad for air flow either(Sanyo is 52cfm). I created a duct that went from the 92mm fan right to the top of the heatsink(with fan removed). I was hoping that using cooler air from outside the case would help make up for the lower airflow. The duct is made out of a Slurpee cup, which was the perfect size!! I cut out a chunk that is about 3 inches high, and it tapers perfectly from 94mm to 81mm. The net result was a much quieter CPU fan, and I only lost 3-5C in cooling. My full load temp on the T-Bird never gets over 48C.

I realize this is perhaps not an option in duallie rigs(not mine at least). Unless someone can create a funky split duct that pumps air on to both CPU's using a higher flow 120mm fan.

I also replaced both my 80mm(one intake, one exhaust) with 92mm Panaflo L1A's. Slightly more airflow with much quieter fans. I put an 80mm Panaflo L1A in the top of my case as a blowhole to help balance airflow.

Second: I have a pretty cheap case in which the hard drive cage is held on with clips, and not screws. With two hard drives in it, it tends to rattle like a pebble in a tin can. It also only has room for three drives, one floppy and two IBM 60GXP's. This means that it gets damn hot in between the two 60GXP's. I measured the temp with a compunurse, and it was 58C between the two drives!!

I like the Lian-Li cases with the hard drive cage right in front of the intake fan. I decided to create one of these, and dampen it to reduce the noise. I stole a 3.5 inch cage out of an old junk 486 case at the office and took it home. It only holds two drives, and I would have prefered a cage that held three drives, but you work with what you have. I drilled a couple of holes in the bottom of the cage, and a couple of matching holes in the bottom of my case. I cut a chunk of rubber out of an old mouse pad that is roughly the same size as the drive cage. I screwed that cage on to the bottom of the case, squishing the rubber between the two. I used nylon washers at each end of the bolts to reduce the metal-metal contact.

With the drives in this cage, I have elimanted the annoying rattle I used to have (except when I use my floppy, which is still in the old crappy cage). Also, with the hard drives right in front of the intake fan, the temperature between them is only 38C now. A 20C drop in temperature for the price of free is always a good deal.

This are kinda hard things to describe. I'll try and snap a couple pic's tonight and throw them up here. Cheers.

[Rikimaru]

www.7volts.com has a some good quiet mods. And don't be suprised when CPU util goes to 100% when at that site, it's supposed to. ;)

[pastor]

one of the guys i met on french forum sent me the pict of the modification he made in his case :
he covered it inside with acoustic damper
he told me that the noise difference was significative !

[pastor]

Originally posted by pastor
i've found an alternative for the heatsink fan

for a better efficiency but a slighty louder noise than the 8412NGL papst :

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/alarmandaccesories/silencerfan/

(28 CFM - 20 Dba)

i'll add that i've received those fans
they are pretty good !!

they are on my Antec sx1040 / Tiger MP rig (1 front pushing 2 rear extracting) ..... :

it run really quiet, and it is enough to cool the case ... :

the Antec 400W PSU run always in quiet mode that is really much more pleasant that the "burst mode" which is really loud and noisy (it seems that this ANtTEC PSU has only 2 fan speed modes.. i've tried to remove 1 additional silencer fan and that's why i could hear this mode )

also i'll add that the Alpha 6035 heatsink i have on my 2 X 1700 XP are enought quiet but i didn't try yet to replace the 60mm fans by 80 mm + 60->80mm conic adapters ........ i'll try it soon

anyway i got 43

[pastor]

someone told me in an other forum that some professional Server case have a feature that can remove some noise :

it's a filter front of the fans holes with a really thin grid which seems to the women transparents socks (i dunno the english name ... in french "bas")

but i don't have such material neither tried with "bas" but this person told me that the difference was significative

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

I think you mean 'pantyhose.'

Thin, sometimes colored to give the legs a 'Tanned' look, instead of the pasty-white of someone who wears pants all the time....

[Rick5127]

Just a few thoughts here. Worth what you paid for them. lol

I saw some folks talk about using rheostats to cut down the fan speed. Careful as the load on the rheostat can burn it out. A much better solution is to build a voltage controller circuit which can be easily done from Radio Shack available parts. In fact the schematic for doing so is on the back of the LM317 controller chip. I did this and have had wonderful results. Anyone who wants some help doing this feel free to contact me. I would be more than happy to help.

Also the mod for using the 12v line and 5v line to come up with a 7 volt line and using it to run a fan. Be careful here. A couple of power supply companies said that there isn't enough power there to do it and they do not recommend it.

I put the SK-6 heatsink with the Y.S. Tech 40cfm 7000 rpm fan on my machine at home. I think they were rated around 39db. Was I sorry. The noise was killing me. I got to the point that I didn't want to go in the computer room. So I built the above voltage divider circuit and turned down the rpms.

This worked wonderful!!!! Just a slight decrease in RPMs made the fan quiet down. Now that I have the dually up and running with two of these things it is still quiet and my temps are less than 30c. I haven't done full load tests yet but feel that the excessive cooling capacity that I have will be fine. And it is pretty quiet.

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Remember: wire-wound rheostats, rated at a higher wattage than your fan.

Voltage regulator's a good idea, but you might need a heatsink for the reg, if the fan's big enough. Might just be easier to by a baybus- off-hi-(custom). Last I checked, they were something like $35.

Panaflow or Sunon's quieter fans, and a baybus for those 60x20mm heatsink fans....



As for the concern power 7v mods, it's not how much the PSU can supply at 7v, but how much 12v it can supply to 'boost' the 5v, and how much your components use 5v. If you have nothing that uses 5v, except for the little bit the mobo uses to keep the ATX PSU from crapping out, you might have problems, if you have lots of fans.

Some cheap PSU's (especially AT's) don't monitor the 12v line well, they only the 5v line, and low draw on the 5v causes the 12v line to become a 10v, or less (if heavily loaded). It can also make the 12v line go as high as 16v (if unloaded, and the 5v is drawing a lot). Most of the better PSU's (Sparkle, Enermax, etc) monitor each and every voltage the PSU outputs.

The vast majority of systems won't have a problem, (if they do damage the PSU, it was crappy anyway- buy an Enermax) but if you're in doubt, build your own regulator, or, if you REALLY doubt your own mad skillz (or just like the look) get a baybus.

Damn, I ramble too much at this hour.....

[jano]

I don't quite understand what pastor wrote up there. Line the fan grills with pantyhose? :D That seems to be what he's saying.

I can see it now, systems modded to go incognito and rob banks with pantyhose masks!

I think he means nylon, though. Same thing :)

Interesting idea, nonetheless. When I unplug my two 7200rpm harddrives, I can only hear the system if I concentrate. Those drives are fairly loud, and rather than spend $50x2 or so on harddrive quiet cover case things.. what if I wrap them up in pantyhose? Is there any sort of danger to that? (i.e. static, current carriers like salt water, fire)?????

Hhhhhhhhhhhmmm.

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Well......

Firewire depot has adapters to let you convert a scsi CD-case to an external IDE drive...... plug in a firewire card, put the offending drives in one of those cases, and put it in the closet. Boot to a dinky 2gb 2.5" laptop drive mounted in closed-cell foam. If you have quiet CPU fans, your system will be an inch from silent.... for about $200. ($80 for the FW-IDE idapter, then the PCI card, then for a beat-up SCSI case... or an old AT case should work.)

[pastor]

hehe :) lol !!!

i mean a material which seems to pantyhose ... it's a kind of fan filter (not really for harddisk) delivered wich some pro-servers cases;

but I didn't tried it (neither with pantyhose :D !)



Originally posted by jano
I don't quite understand what pastor wrote up there. Line the fan grills with pantyhose? :D That seems to be what he's saying.

I can see it now, systems modded to go incognito and rob banks with pantyhose masks!

I think he means nylon, though. Same thing :)

Interesting idea, nonetheless. When I unplug my two 7200rpm harddrives, I can only hear the system if I concentrate. Those drives are fairly loud, and rather than spend $50x2 or so on harddrive quiet cover case things.. what if I wrap them up in pantyhose? Is there any sort of danger to that? (i.e. static, current carriers like salt water, fire)?????

Hhhhhhhhhhhmmm.

[jano]

psychobob, drives are in the onboard raid thingy (yeah, i know its just like software raid, but still).

I'm going to look into puttig some sorta noise dampeners into the system.

Anyone ever do the grommet technique stuff?? I woder if it will help. I think the noise is less from vibration and more from just the drives spinning.

[banjomike]

Linux Journal did an article on how to build an
Ultimate Linux Box, and did some detailed
work on accoustics. If you wanna see the math
behind it all or get an understanding about how
sources 'add' up check it out:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-articles/style/images&file=5420s6

They also recommened the Silverado by Noise Control.
Tom's hardware

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q1/010306/cooler-10.html

did a review of lots of cpu coolers and the Silverado was 2nd in cooling and 2nd in noise control. The quietest was last place in cooling and the best cooler was nearly the loudest, but the silverado was very impressive on both fronts.

Typically a squirrel cge fan is louder for the same cfm as an axial
fan, but since this one uses 2, I guess you can run them at much lower rpms. They also come with several power cords with different resistors, so you can run them at a variety of speeds.

They are pretty pricey though.

One other point that you might not think of...
Clean fan blades make a fan run significantly quieter!
Dirt on your blades increases turbulence which increases noise, and decreases efficiency. In the long run, some kind of filter on your incomming air can do alot to maintain efficency and keep your box quiet.


MsB Professional Engineer in Mechanical Engineering
dBA and cfms are almost more fun than GHz and Mbs

[doomix]

hello, i managed to get my workstation almost quiet (using sk6s with papst fans for the cpus + papst 120mm@7v for the case), but i got a 10krpm lvd drive, which is damn loud. has anyone an idea how to silence it down?

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Do you want the ghetto cheap version, or the one that requires enough loot that you could buy a new, quieter drive instead?

The expensive way: buy a firewire card, find an old 1-2 drive scsi external box, go to www.fwdepot.com and get the firewire-scsi adapter. Install your hdd in the external case, and put it in the closet. Run the firewire cable to your system. Don't know if you can boot like this, so the cheapo version is probably better.

Cheap way: flat rubber washers or grommets, use them to isolate the drive from the case.

[doomix]

those methods seem interesting for a ide drive, but not for a lvdscsi drive, since i dont want to loose performance, and just puttin some foam around the drive doesnt sound good to me since the drive gets very warm (almost hot to touch) after operating for a while... but thanks for your reply :)

[jano]

I tried the grommets last week and failed miserably. Took me about half an hour to stick each grommet through the screw holes, and by the time I was able to shove the drive through into the bracket, the grommets ripped apart. Yes, they were the smallest grommets I could find, too. I'm not a very "handyman" llike person.

I think maybe I did it the wrong way, I could have probably done it simply by using two grommets, one on either side of the drive bracket.

From the grommets that did stay without ripping apart, doesn't seem like they made a difference. I'm skeptical that the grommets will work. I am willing to try again, though.

Oh, I also tried the poor-man's version of noise dampening material. I lined my case with surgical gauze :D It works, but not quite enough. I can still hear the drives! :(

[MichaelMR2]

I Tried running my blowers off the 7v line from the PSU and it diden't like it, Not even bringing up the boot screen(even thought the PSU would turn on)
(this is a 550w enermax here!)

I've now got them running off a car charger in series so they get like 6 V each.



It seems to me that the ultimate solution here is to build a second case to go over the first...

then stick that not so dense pillow foam inbetween the PC and the cover.

(maybe speaker Dampening material?)

also, for the CPU and those of us with hot graphics cards(or other stuff that needs Constant fan cooling)It might be worth getting an old Car Air box and ducting from it into the case to supply air to the formentioned components

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

Ok, since I have time....

To quiet the HDD, get some plumber's strapping, (strip of metal with holes in it) something that's often used in ghetto drive-cages. The width of the grommets will make the drive something like 0.2" wider than it would be normally (depending on what size grommets you use). Or, get the 3.5" rack from an old case, and yank it apart enough to widen it to accept the drive+grommets. Might need to visit RadioShack to get longer screws, tho.

For lining the case, minimum-expanding foam will work to put eggcrate foam on the inside of the case panels. You can also use Dynamat or one of it's copies to line it first, before applying the foam. Dynamat to reduce the low-frequency vibration, and open-cell foam to absorb the hi-freq whining from the drive.

Supposedly there's a thermally-conductive foam being developed that'll be a blessing. Take that nice drive-quieter that qrapps the HDD in aluminum and foam.... but the drive has to be under a certain wattage. When it can have a nice, 20-watt drive in there w/o complaining..... Probably cost $60+, tho.

[MichaelMR2]

Hmmm, Themally conductive insulation....

anyone thinking steel wool ?

OR maybe water jacket cooled (Insulated) Drives?

[UKWolf]

Now that sounds like a damn good idea :D

You could have a an elestimer/polymer "bag" sleeving the drive into a 51/4 bay - I do like that :cool:

:cool:

[beppi]

Hi,
my 2 cents, I made my own clearcast resin blocks over the Heatsinks ( 2 933Mhz Intels) (Slot1) then run them outside to a 55 gallon drum burried in the ground trough a E-Heim pump. No fans, no radiator. Also watercooled the powersupply (400watt), no noise whatsoever in my computer room. I hate fans. hi.
Good luck:D

[UKWolf]

beppi

What resin did you use ??

:cool:

[beppi]

Hi,

Resin is called clearcasting resin, polyester S-41.
It is very clear, no yellow like resin or epoxy usually is. My computer runs in the suctionside if the eheim-pump, if I get a leak I can see bubbles running in the tubing and/or clearcast blocks. I have a plexiglas window in the side of the computer and a light inside. (12volt blue) Looks great. Microswitch on a paddle is mounted on the dischargeside of the pump, no water out I break the 110volt to the computer, kills it instantly. Not happened yet, only in testing. At startup I use a latch-in relay with 5 seconds delay, must start first the waterpump otherwise cannot start the computer. Electric/electronic I build myself so I don't know if you can buy it finished.
Good Luck
:D

[UKWolf]

Cheers man

The suction principle is a good idea as well :D

:cool:

[jeh]

A couple more links:

http://www.quietpc.com/

http://www.soundproofing.org/index.html

Their Q&A has a couple of entries about quieting PCs, particularly http://www.soundproofing.org/wwwboard/messages/167.html . The claim here is that ordinary "eggcrate" foam, although it LOOKS kinda like it should absorb some sound, it doesn't really. Gluing it to the inside of the computer case does provide a bit of mass-loading and resonance-taming, but there are materials that do that a lot better.... I haven't tried them yet.

[glitch]

what about if i glue the eggcrates to the outside of my case? not the foam, but the kind from the supermarker? now that would look awesome... i've heard those are the poorman's acoustic foam, and if you want to soundproof a room you can cover the walls with them (this from an audioengineer friend of mine).

[jeh]

Hmmm... this isn't my field, I'm an enthusiast and a camp follower at best... but according to what I've seen, and the folks at soundproofing.org, no, it can't, at least not much.

That sort of thing on the walls CAN help tame echoes in a room, and there are a whole slew of products on the market for that purpose ("RoomTunes", "TubeTraps", etc.)

But that's not at all the same thing as soundproofing, which is stopping sound from coming through the walls (either direction).

Real soundproofing, esp against bass, is insanely difficult and expensive. When a bass note hits a wall, the pressure wave doesn't move through the wall -- the wall moves slightly and reproduces the bass note (at lower volume and somewhat muddled) on the other side. To really soundproof a room you have to keep that from happening. This means either VERY rigid walls (like concrete block with the spaces filled) or else a "floating" construction with no common points of contact that can transmit the energy.

[jano]

Originally posted by glitch
what about if i glue the eggcrates to the outside of my case? not the foam, but the kind from the supermarker? now that would look awesome...

I hope you're kidding... :P

[glitch]

hey man, PC noise isn't a laughing matter :D.

[Ron_L]

Repost from Koolance thread...

The A7M266-D fits fine in the Koolance PC2-C mid tower. The power LED was a bit of a stretch, but it did reach. The new Koolance PC2-601 full tower based on the Antec case is even larger, so I would definitely consider that model if I were you. The tower model also uses slightly thicker tubing, which should improve cooling performance somewhat.

Other misc notes...

I noticed the 760MPX chipset gets extremely hot...so you may want to consider cooling that in addition to the two processors. I ordered the chipset cooler and plan to add it soon...as I already added the water to the system, that will be a pain in the butt.

In an effort to make the tubing as short as possible, I oriented one of the heatsinks in a way that I regret now (seen below)...that results in slightly bent tubing. I think this negatively impacts the flow of water through the system. The system still runs fine...but sometimes under heavy load, the case will enter fan mode 3 for brief periods, and I can't stand that noise.

(Gotta cut down on my bandwidth...Click here if you want to see the image (http://kfowler.bizland.com/temp/newest/koolance3.jpg))

Mode 2 is quiet...and mode 1 on the fans is virtually silent. Next weekend, I plan to redo the tubing (obviously, its a hassle, cause there is water in the tubes!) so its not awkardly bent...and also replace the standard heatsink paste with Artic Silver 3. While I am at it, I'll also add the chipset cooler. My hope is that I can get the system to the point where it will remain in mode 1 all the time, or at least, so that it never reaches a temperature under load that will put it into mode 3.

(Gotta cut down on my bandwidth...Click here if you want to see the image (http://kfowler.bizland.com/temp/newest/koolance4.jpg))

If anyone has further questions, please let me know.

Cheers,
Ken

[Ron_L]

FYI the system above is running two Athlon 1900+ processors at 12x140=1680MHz.

[Rellik]

To contribute to this thread, I

[Wykat]

Silencing a PC is my favorite :p . I'm using a dual BP6 mainboard since 3 years now with all kind of noise reduction tricks inside. Nevertheless I'm still looking for a better alternative. So far I've found a maximum of 5 ways to go (be warned some are not suitable for MPS however);

1) www.cnssystem.com . They have a complete passively cooled solution (it's NOT watercooling !). Disadvantages are 1 GHZ max and at the moment only 1 single CPU case. The idea is however good. They have announced new casings.

2) Using the large Zalman CPU coolers with large fan's. These fans are great for 'normal' CPU's, but not for the high power ones. I'm using one myself and must say for low noise they are the best at the moment. I also found many good references to the PSU as stated above. (better then Enermax)

3) VIA CPU. They can use passive heatsinks, but are not suitable for dual CPU systems and have a very low processing power (even for a HTPC for which 600-700 MHz Celeron is enough)

4) Watercooling (I also checked the other thread and am not sure if this is the real silent solution)

5) http://www.benchtest.com/heat_pipe1.html :p . This is my favorite solution but we can't get it commercially.

You can find all kind of discussions of noise reduction on the net today. It will not take long before real innovative solutions will come I think.

Wykat

[PsycoBob[Q2]]

http://www.solorb.com/gfc/elect/solarcirc/pwm1/

has a PWM motor speed controller. I think I found a new project. :D

You can even make it into a fanbus-style unit, with more than one controller.... and use a different n-channel FET to run bigger fans (it puts out 3amps, stock. I found a nice 50A 50V for those who wish they had systems with a few dozen 7krpm 120mm fans....)

[pastor]

i must mention that global Win just released a new HSF :

TAK58 : rated 25 DBa up to 1.7Ghz

http://www.globalwin.com.tw/cd_html.html

so they take care of our ears now :

[Ron_L]

Finally!

A vendor has released a clip-on cooler with the performance of the screw on PAL8045 and Swiftech MCX-462---the Thermalright AX7.

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=155

Although a clip-on, this cooler is rather big...but it looks like it should fit. At $29.95, it's reasonably priced as well. Replace the default 80mm fan with an 80mm Panaflo L1A for some ultra quiet cooling...

[jcd144s]

I'm having some trouble fighting PC noise. I want to slow down some fans. I started a new thread for my question over here... (http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14890) Need some suggestions on finding the parts I need.

[Oneiroxy]

I have installed two 120mmx38mm (generic) fans in series on the side panel of the case pointing on the dualities modified to run either on 7 or 12V. I am only using them on 7V and they provide about 75% of the max CFM of one 120mm fan@full load, with the noise of a 7V fan (...or a bit more). I have now tried that to my front and top panel 80mm fans, but now three in series on both occasions achieving a hefty strong draft and the noise at least is better than one again.

I am convinced to do that on my new server as well, until there is an affordable water-cooling system that is.

Oneiroxy

[Dark]

i may have found something fairly cheap to use for sound deading in our cases. What they are is sound deading sticky pads come in packs of six and are 12"x12". We use them at work inside of door skins, roofs, trunks, etc, you might even see them in spots on your vehicle even if it hasnt been to the shop to get repaired as they are standard from a lot of companies in trunks to keep road noise and vibration down.

They are Q-Pads from the Evercoat (fiberglass makers) company part number 100116. Not sure as to cost as the parts person at my shop just gave them to me when i asked :D. Do note i put two in my small Enlight case and it does sound quiter but hell its added a bit to the weight of it. I will get some more next week to do the other two systems i have sitting here to see if actually does cut down on the noise level (one system is a Dual Xeon PII 450 in a InWin Q500, the other is a Celeron 300A@450 in a InWin Q500), as both of these systems are pumping out a lot of noise.

I thought of using these yesterday when i was at work and thinking about painting my case (took it from beige to jet black), and was in the parts room getting some supplies for another job and seen them sitting there. So figured what the hell, to bad there wasnt a LAN this weekend or else i could tell for certin how well these pads work for sound.

[Sensonic]

Have a look at http://www.heatsink-guide.com/tempcontrol.htm and build your own fan speed controllers. I have four PCs in one smallish room, and since I built some of these controllers I've reduced the noise level in here by a considerable amount. The cost is about 1.50 GBP each.

Basically, the fans only run at full speed when the PC is at 100% for extended periods. The rest of the time, they run very quietly, and sometimes stop altogether if the room is cool enough. I haven't been added one to the PSU in my main PC, so there's always some air exchange going on in the case.

[The Manny]

I have silenced my PCs by placing them in an adjacent room with all my satellite, video, and audio gear. There's a frig in there too. The walls and ceiling of my office are insulated, as is the door. If there is nothing else on, I can just barely hear the fans on my Dell server when they are on high. I use wireless keyboard/mouse, and 25' RGB cables to feed a projector and 21" monitor.
Peace (and quiet).

[banjomike]

I built my box with the Silverados (silver heat spreader, aluminum sink, and 2 squirrel cage fans each). Cooling was... inadequate.

I've tried all kinds of things since, including:

speed control on just about every fan,
ducting, and
replacing the squirrel cage fans.

I ran a duct from one of two front intake fans to the cpu area. This helped by 1-2 deg C at idle, and slowed but did not stop the inevitable march towards high speed instability under a full load.

I installed speed controlled exhaust fan (the case has a simple speed controller for the intake fans). Didn't help with full load temps, but did help for DVD watching.

Finally this weekend, I got rid of those heavy, useless, clunky squirrel cage fans (I am such a sucker for funky approaches to common problems). I replaced them with speed controlled YSTech 80mm fans and some 80mm-60mm fan adapters. And...
with all fans on max I can run RC5 indefinately and the high cpu temp (as measured by TyanTemp) is steady at 54 deg C. Not pretty but good enough for now. Eventually I'm going to have all of these speed controlers through one of my empty drive slots. Now I can turn down the fans, and have a tolerable noise level for things like watching DVDs, listening to music, or surfing; and I can crank it all up and not worry about over heating.

BTW I kept the heatsinks from the Silverados, I figured I could do worse that aluminum with silver heat spreaders.

Wishing you all cool, quiet, and fast computers.

MsB

[riv]

You take a piece of paperboard that you cut at the dimension of the heatsink (where the flow goes out) and with the average tape you make sure to stick it. This way you concentrate all the airflow at the bottom of the heatsink where the actual heat is. I got a good 3-4 degree celcius drop.

[Random]

Originally posted by riv
You take a piece of paperboard that you cut at the dimension of the heatsink (where the flow goes out) and with the average tape you make sure to stick it. This way you concentrate all the airflow at the bottom of the heatsink where the actual heat is. I got a good 3-4 degree celcius drop.

Just wrap the hsink with paper to force air down to the bottom right? Tried it after reading your post but don't see any temp change. Too bad.

[riv]

How many cm or inches did you left for the actual flow to get out? Out of 3cm I left ~1cm.

Well, the only failure it no not try!

[run_time]

I just scored a huge noise win, but it cost me a few bucks.

I'm running Supermicro P4DC6+ w/ dual 2.2 Xeons, Intel wind tunnel coolers modded to take Pabst fans.

Lian Li PC71 case.

PC Power & Cooling 475 XE supply.

The thing was really too noisy -- mostly because of the PS fan. I emailed PCP&C and a tech told me to replace the PS fan with one of their 80mm Thermalsense units.

I also swapped all the Lian Li-supplied case fans with Pabst 80 mm fans.

Results.....

"A" weighting with trusty Radio Shack meter

position........before..........change PS fan........change all fans

60 cm side...... 54 ..................50......................lt.50

top of case
pointing rear...63....................57........................54

desk front,
meter facing
case................52.................lt.50.....................lt.50

workchair back
shoulder ht.....54 ("C")............51 ("C")............lt.50 ("C")

(had to use "C" weighting for the chair back measurement because even in the original, the "A" weighting was below the meter's floor.)

Now, for the first time, I'm actually aware of the other two computers in my work room (Compaq DS10, rather noisy; PC Power & Cooling Slimline, pretty quiet). Before, in my main work position, the Xeon rig totally dominated the noise.

I can think again.

Directron for the Pabsts; PCP&C for the Thermalsense. Whole thing cost me over $100 but it was totally worth it.

BTW, CPU and mainboard temps remain in the range they were in before, so the Pabsts are moving enough air.

Whew. Noise was the only rap I had against my Xeon dualie.

Don M

[bigbacon]

I love my super noisy system. I wouldnt want it any other way.

[pastor]

Well, i come back to this thread cos i thought i'd found a good solution b4 with 2 alpha 6035 on 2 XP1700 for my tigerMP
but it seems that's it's a bit light :/

Summer approach and it seems that my workstation hang sometimes when weather is very hot (30-35

[pastor]

also this one seems to rocks (a Taisol) :

http://www.nokytech.net/news.php?id_news=1332

but still waiting for reviews ...

[sergio]

I recently post my experience about silencing a chieftec big tower... I have approximately the same compoments as you wish to buy.

I recommend using Seagate baraccuda4. there are extremely silent....

follow the link to have info.
http://momopc.free.fr

[spikegifted]

sergio:

tres bien! ;) can you give us some details about your setup and may be some temp reading?? :) the reason i ask is because enclosure damping can sometimes reduce the heat lost via the case itself... thanks!

[sergio]

Yes, the damping material increase temperature inside the case.
fortunately, I "just" (it was the top 3 years ago...) have a bi p3 500 o/c 550 which is not basically warm.

After 1 hour at full load, the proc temp are 52 and 54 C. there is a difference because one is close to the fan... The temp inside the case is always around 34 C. The temp is taken directly in the core of the proc (i use a probe).

till recently my setup was :
3 HDD :
- ibm scsi 9go
- ibm ide 20go
- ibm ide 34go

1 DVD pionneer ide
1 CDR 8/20x plextor ide
1 CD 40x plextor ide

1 geforce2GTS
1 Network card
1 sound card
1 pci ide extension

BUT the scsi was loudy and not very efficient compare to was exist today (jun 98...), so I replace the scsi and ibm 20go by a seagate barracuda 4 of 40go which is extremely silent (we have them at work:).

I also use rounded cable (which were not pictured... will correct that soon).

The noise is really unaudible and the temp is good:)

[spikegifted]

sergio:

merci bien! ;)

[DataMan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by run_time
[B]I just scored a huge noise win, but it cost me a few bucks.

I'm running Supermicro P4DC6+ w/ dual 2.2 Xeons, Intel wind tunnel coolers modded to take Pabst fans.

Lian Li PC71 case.

PC Power & Cooling 475 XE supply.

The thing was really too noisy -- mostly because of the PS fan. I emailed PCP&C and a tech told me to replace the PS fan with one of their 80mm Thermalsense units.

Is the PCP&C Thermalsense unit a fan or a whole power supply? I don't see Thermalsense fans on their website. If it was a power supply, did it have all of the same connectors as the 475 XE?
I have the exact setup as you did and I am looking for solutions. Also, did you use Papst 60mm fans in the wind tunnels?

[run_time]

It's very hard to find the thing on their web site, and it's impossible to order it online.

You can get to it this way:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/prices/index_access.htm

Look for "Thermasense 80 mm variable speed fan"

$15.

It's just a fan. I had to open the PS, snip the leads to the old fan, remove it, slip the new one in and solder the leads. The reason for soldering is that the old leads terminate in a connector, and you need to keep using the connector.

Later, the PPC tech told me that what I had done was to make what they're going to call the "Silencer 435" which despite the name is a 475W PS. So it should be on the market soon.

The fans on the intel wind tunnel are 60mm Pabst and yes, I had to modify them, but only slightly. There was a thread about it back in April or May.

DM

[DataMan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by run_time
The fans on the intel wind tunnel are 60mm Pabst and yes, I had to modify them, but only slightly. There was a thread about it back in April or May.

Thanks for the response run_time.

I was wondering about the Papst fans you have setup on your "Wind Tunnels".

1. I can only find them in a variable (thermal sensor) speed mode. I think they are called Thermaflo or something like that. Are yours the same?

2. If they are then how do you have them setup? We have the same motherboard and case so I assume you have the fans setup to pull air from the front, blow across the HSs, and out the back. Pulling from the front through the HSs would be impossible because of the memory and chipset HS do not allow room for the fans. That is unless you are really creative.

3. This would possibly explain why your temps. increased when you switched from the stock fans. Not only did you go to a fan with less output, you also never get the highest potiential output from the Papst. The thermal sensor is always seeing cool air thus never engaging the higher speed. Is my thinking right here? I guess you could always go from back to front. I don't think I'll do that though.

Anyway, if you are not having any problems I am willing to give it a try to get the noise down. I'm thinking of installing four of the Papst 80mm 12dbA fans in the case and the 60s on the WTs. That might help the hearing while still maintaining a reasonable temp on the CPUs.

Your thoughts,
DataMan

[Phoenix_III]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I saw this question come up

"Would ThermoSonic ThermoEngines work on Athlon ~1.5"

I run them, they work fine... I think the stats are '18.43 CFM,27dBA'... They are quiet...

Full load temps = ~50, I can check when I get home... ambient is very low though... :)

[QuintLeo]

A Thermoengine with the stock fan ate my original T'Bird 1.4Ghz.

They MIGHT work on some of the XP series, which run cooler - but they definitely need a heavier-duty fan, like a Delta Black Label or comparable.

IMO, though, AX7's or 8045's are a MUCH better option.

[Phoenix_III]

The ThermoSonic ThermoEngine = works well on a dual XP 1800 setup


My FULL LOAD temperatures = 41 and 42 degrees C. However, I have a LOT of CFM moving through my case, and since the system is well made (by me and senior Q500 R2), my system heats up noticably with the case off (41c to 50+)... The room is also usually ~72F

[snapping sam]

In the Uk I've found a site dedicated to this

www.quitepc.com

They seem to reccomend the Zeltman Copper Flower - is that any good??

[Egekrusher]

How does 360 CFM of intake sound to you? A little too LOUD for the old fogeys ears? Sorry if I sound rude, but you have to watch the stereotyping there man. I am just as intelligent as you are (probably more, judging by your spelling and punctuation), and I listen to heavy metal, have long hair (down to the middle of my back), and yes I have my computer hooked up to my stereo system (Dolby Digital receiver, Infinity speakers for main, Aiwa center, off brand 15" subwoofer w/ a car amp hooked up to it).
I have probably about 500 watts pumping through my stereo.
Now, what in the WORLD makes you think that I am on some lower level than you? I hate self-righteous people.

[Motoxman]

I am with Egekrusher on this one. Pastor! That was about the dumbest stereo typing i have seen yet. Heavy Metal rules momas boy and you are definetly full geek and should probably not post anthing that stupid again. If you want silence join a monastery.

[pastor]

men, it was about a caricature joke :p
every taste are in the nature so just don't bother this thread.

edit:

Egekrusher wrote:
"i'm am just as intelligent as you are (probably more, judging by your spelling and punctuation)"

: thanks for this brillant analysis ... unfortunatly english is not my natural language so i'll try to improve

Motoxman wrote:
"Metal rules momas boy and you are definetly full geek "

Who is the full Geek ? :D :

http://forums.2cpu.com/attachment.php?postid=172953

[Motoxman]

Sorry didnt mean to be rude pastor and i apologize but it was not that great a post. just my opinion, which prob doesnt count anyway.

Moto

[pastor]

no prob moto ;) they are more important things than noise in the life anyway :D

[riv]

Such as stress, caused by... noise! :D

[johanp]

Has anyone padded their case with Dynamat like this (http://www.2cooltek.com/7896_3.html) or tried Power Snooze (http://www.power-snooze.com/index1.html) and can give and indication of how much they really help?

[pastor]

i didn't try with such specialized material but i'd padded my case with something home made :

it decrease just a bit the noise level but it attenuate a lot the high frequency noises ( mostly generated by hard disks )

[pastor]

http://calypshuile.chez.tiscali.fr/ then click on "Fabrication"

:D

the ultimate solution :p

take your Tower and put it in an aquarium full of power supply oil (non conductive) except for the rotating part (floppy and dvdrom)

[QuintLeo]

Originally posted by Egekrusher
How does 360 CFM of intake sound to you?

...

I listen to heavy metal, have long hair (down to the middle of my back), and yes I have my computer hooked up to my stereo system (Dolby Digital receiver, Infinity speakers for main, Aiwa center, off brand 15" subwoofer w/ a car amp hooked up to it).


360cfm sounds a *little* excessive - for one system. Even a 4u case should be kept plenty cool by 240 or so.

9-)

As it happens, I also listen to Heavy Metal (the classic stuff like Hendryx and Zep and Deep Purple, not Hearbanger). As far as your heir length - you're a shorthair. I can brush my derrierre with mine - barely.

8-)

I'm another "my computer is part of my stereo" type - comp feeds straight into a modded Nikko Alpha III which feeds a pair of Advents (used to feed my Magnapan MG-IIIs but those speakers died). My #2 machine has an older amplified sound card in it, which is plenty to drive my older worn-out Infinity RS10s (I don't play a lotta music on that machine).

[Egekrusher]

Sorry about the misunderstanding about the language Pastor, I assumed. One should never assume, that makes an ASS out of U and ME. Get it? Anyways, I admit it is excessive. But, this is my video game and rendering system. I listen to MP3's and watch DVD's and movies on my PIII 550, which is virtually silent.

I have a very heavily overclocked video card which requires greater than usual cooling. I have a Geforce 3 that is overvoltaged, which allows me to clock it @ 265/575 (compared to stock 200/460). I need extreme cooling for this method of overclocking. I actually attached a full blown Athlon heatsink to the GPU on my card and fashioned my own copper ramsinks, monstrous beasts.

Oh yeah, what's wrong with being a full blown geek? I mean, theres an overwhelming chance that you are anyways if you are hanging around in a forum for dual processors. I didn't mean the old fogey bit, sorry about that. But I really don't see what you guys are complaining about, I mean, comeon, look at my airflow- do you have any idea how much noise that generates? All it takes is a little time to get used to it. Just ignore it for a few days, then it will be as if there is no noise there.

And you still stereotyped. ;)

[pastor]

hehe ;)

u know i agree with you, if you are hanging around websites like 2cpu mean that you probably are a full geek :p

i spend a lot of my time on a computer (mostly for work) and , to be considered by others as a geek is not very enjoyable so i just try to attenuate this as much i can do.
Noise increase your stress while you can't realize really which part of the stress is due to noise .

i make 3d visuals for advertisement compagnies and some of my customers have to come in my office room so i need to avoid to appear as a "computerguy" specialized in pc tuning, since a part of my job is to sell 'dream & glamour stuff' :D

to go farther my individual case, i feel that the competition in Cpus between intel and amd (or whatever) recently give us much benefits like more power and less cost but it has been in part thanks to a degradation of our environnement.
For instance, Cooling requirements for the last athlons XP 2000+ - 2200+ seemed just ...too much oversized (i mean for the DBa :D)

and don't worry Egekrusher, i still have in stock an old and noisy overclocked pc loaded with mp3 ready to pump out serious SOUND ;)

[pcdoc]

After reading this thread I thought I should share my expereinces with you guys - Thanks for all the tips.
I have been trying my damnedest to get rid some of the noise in my system. This is how I did it (over a period of 2-3 months)
1. I changed the CPU fans to 80mm using some cheap plastic 60 to 80 converters- But I wasn't happy with them so bought some cool looking Akasa converters which are really quite good. At this stage I had some Evercool fans which were kind of OK with the noise
2. I changed the tiny heatsink and fan on the ATI radeon and replaced it with a orange orb ( so it wont block the neighbouring PCI slot- otherwise I was going to go for the Chrome Orb) - I did not connect up the fan but still managed to do the bios mod to OC it to 190/190! . Just means maybe that we dont need this fan in a well ventilated system.
3. I disconnected some of the case fans. The coolermaster ATCS comes with 5 - these are actually quite quiet- but i realised that the top fan did not make any difference whatsoever and I also disconnected one of the two front intake fans. I replaced the front and rear fans with the evercool ones. At this stage i was still not happy with the evercools - so bought some speed controlled Enermax fans 80mm and stuck them on the CPUs. But the system kept switching itself off within 1-2 mins - sometimes straightaway. Disabling the monitoring in the BIOS did not help. Finally I managed to solve the problem by attaching the 3 pin connectors to the non-monitored ports on the motherboard.
I had also got the Zalman fanmate which I attached to the outake fan at the back of the case. I was more impressed with the fanmate than with the Enermax fans I must say (they cost me more or less the same)
4. I bought the AKASA paxmate and stuck it on the inside of the case. It did dampen some of the noise but raised the case temp by at least 4-5 degrees
5. I checked all the screws and fixings in the case to reduce vibration
6. But the one thing that really made a HUGE difference was with the Enermax power supply. Although it is meant to be temperature controlled it started getting noisy within the first 5 to 10 mins.
So i followed some instructions on this site (http://members.shaw.ca/mikechinvan/quiet_at_2G_3.htm) and repositioned the thermistor. It was actually stuck solid into the coil and needed some good yanking before (thankfully ) it came off. I think this is what finally did it to be honest. Now it is very toleralble noise levels and am very happy chappy indeed
7. I also found a slight difference if I kept the case at the floor level than high up on the table. It seems to be less noisy down on the floor but perhaps more likely to suck in the dust

Since then I have changed my video card to a Ti4200 but planning to disconnect the fan on this one too and see what happens. I have kind of directed the intake case fan to blow cool air on to the video card by forming a duct using my useless plastic 60 to 80 mm converters stuck end to end with some screws!!!
Anyway - I have now come to terms with the noise levels of aircooling and have probably realised the limits. the next thing would of course be watercooling - But that is for much, much later.
Present temp levels
CPU0-50C
CPU1-49.5C
Mobo-38C
Under load there is not a lot of difference only about 2-3 degrees rise!

[pastor]

Originally posted by pastor
http://calypshuile.chez.tiscali.fr/ then click on "Fabrication"

:D

the ultimate solution :p

take your Tower and put it in an aquarium full of power supply oil (non conductive) except for the rotating part (floppy and dvdrom)

lol :D

here is the pict :

[Egekrusher]

Wow.... do you have any pumps in there, or does it just sit there?
What are the temps like under full load (video games and such),
and what are the temps like after, oh, 5 hours of use?
Also, what about hard drives? This doesn't damage them? Did you have to seal all of the holes in them?

[rocko]

Ohmygod! That's just totally wild! Does that thing really work?

[pastor]

i must say that there is a misunderstanding :

i'm not the creator of this crazy project :D

well just check it out : http://calypshuile.chez.tiscali.fr/

he says that the system is absolutely silent
it's an aquarium full of power supply oil
it works with pumps and well he say it works !!
and rotating parts (hardrives and cdrom) still external

he doesn't speak about any temperatures but i guess it's efficient :eek:

[pastor]

just comfortably sit down and listen the Fans :

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tecar.html

( fan recorded -> wav samples available to download )

[Bigg]

a good resourse i don't know if it has been mentioned yet, is www.silentpcreview.com

another thing. if u have a dual athlon system in the basement, and u have 2x y. s. tech screamers and the whole rest, u could get away from the noise by buliding a miniitx system. small and silen. u could surf the net and type on them, and game on your dual amd. u woulnd't hear the fans on ur dual amd, because you'd just turn the volume up.
go to www.miniitx.com

[beppi]

Hi All,
I don't know why you guys don't believe a aquarium does not work. I have it myself, allmost same setup, except the DVD, Floppy CD-r sits on top of the aquarium. Harddrives are in the aquarium too, 3 copperboxes, each holds 2 HDD's. Heattransfer via the walls of the copperboxes (silversoldered them). The onl;y thing I change and try now, is sticking them in plasticbags and submerge the bag 3/4. I have a 55 gallon drum outside of my house in the ground and the oil circulates (E-Heim Fishtank Pump) trought that drum. The noisiest part are the harddrives, otherwise all fans gone and it works excellent. Temps: allmost the same whatever the oil is in the drum. Right now 84.4F, CPU's 85.6F, 86F.
It is not wild, it is the perfect solution. I have a Iwill MPX2 on order that will replace the one in the aquarium. Keep a open mind go for it, you want be sorry.:D
------------------------------------
Die sooner be longer dead:eek:

[Bigg]

sweet :D drool:D
I hope the seal on the hd cases is not brocken!!!;)

[x509]

Originally posted by beppi
Hi All,
I don't know why you guys don't believe a aquarium does not work. I have it myself, allmost same setup, except the DVD, Floppy CD-r sits on top of the aquarium. Harddrives are in the aquarium too, 3 copperboxes, each holds 2 HDD's. Heattransfer via the walls of the copperboxes (silversoldered them). The onl;y thing I change and try now, is sticking them in plasticbags and submerge the bag 3/4. I have a 55 gallon drum outside of my house in the ground and the oil circulates (E-Heim Fishtank Pump) trought that drum. The noisiest part are the harddrives, otherwise all fans gone and it works excellent. Temps: allmost the same whatever the oil is in the drum. Right now 84.4F, CPU's 85.6F, 86F.
It is not wild, it is the perfect solution. I have a Iwill MPX2 on order that will replace the one in the aquarium. Keep a open mind go for it, you want be sorry.:D


Beppi,

I don't want to appear either credulous :confused: or disbelieving :p but would be able to post some, uh, pictures of your setup, showing powered-up operation.

:rolleyes:

X509

[beppi]

Hi All,
I will scratch the pics together that I did when I started my project. I actually did not document much at that time except a few pictures scattered around. I get a webcam again next week, because I like this time to document more when I dump the IWILL in white mineral oil. Should also arrive beginning next week.
Will post the ones I have tonight when I get home.

------------------------------
Die sooner be longer dead
:eek:

[beppi]

Hi All,
Found a few pics from early test stage with a old motherboard. ( I have 7 HDD and not all hooked-up) and a Screen with the newer one. Will post again when I get the camera:D
I converted them this morning for small filesize, don't know how they will show up on the post. (First time for me):p

You can lead the camel to the water but you can't make them drink.:D :D
---------------------
Die sooner be longer dead:eek:

Saved the pics as webfile (gif) refused the format to post converted to jpg refused, still too big, sorry must go to work this morning will play tonight with the pics again to make them very small. :(

[beppi]

OK,
Took them with me hope it will go this time:p
-------------------------
Die sooner be longer dead:eek:

[beppi]

more

[beppi]

I guess I should make a webpage to post more pics.
A other project. Hi:)

[beppi]

I know you guys want the latest pics, I have to search more over my HDD's and then when I get the Cam in I will take some more pics and see that I make a free website to post them. However at least we can post on this server something, that's nice. Thanks 2CPU.
Whatever it's worth, I do not go back to any other cooling. The worst cooling for my opinion is Air because of noise.
Haven't played yet with plasticbags for the HDD, as you can see the cooperboxes are relative big. I want to hang the HDD in plasticbags on strings. My only problem is the heat again. I don't know if the cooling would be enough that the plastic want melt but I will find that out soon:D
-----------------------------
Die sooner be longer dead:eek:

[Bigg]

NICE!!!:D
I don't thik many people wil go with submerged pcs, but its a cool idea anyway

[pastor]

Whaooww !!! u did it !!! ;)

what about some motorized fishs ? :D

[beppi]

Hi Pastor,
Thanks I actually taught about it since I still have a Gift-Card from Petsmart:D but I will wait till I have my IWILL in there. I realize does 2 AMD's will heat much more then the 933's that I have right now but then, I cross that bridge when the time comes, which will be hopefully next week:p
Thanks
-----------------------------
You can lead the camel to the water, you can't make them drink;)

[pastor]

Originally posted by beppi
Hi Pastor,
Thanks I actually taught about it since I still have a Gift-Card from Petsmart:D but I will wait till I have my IWILL in there. I realize does 2 AMD's will heat much more then the 933's that I have right now but then, I cross that bridge when the time comes, which will be hopefully next week:p
Thanks
-----------------------------
You can lead the camel to the water, you can't make them drink;)

unfortunatly I really can't tell u if your system is going to overheat :/

the capsulhuile thing i mentionned above is a P3 850 384Mo de RAM ... .buy i can tell you that a dual athlon require a rather huge cooling.. anyway you can try it because i guess it is not so much risky

[glitch]

I wonder if having swimming plastic fishes might improve your oil circulation :).

[beppi]

Hi All,
Received my IWILL stuff but it looks like I have a hard time with it.
Whatever I did the board shuts down in 2~3 seconds.
So I have to figure out first what is wrong before it goes into the aquarium. Took all out allready didn't expect trouble in the sunshine state, should have known bether after the elections we had.:D
First things first now. (I will be back).
Thanks
---------------------------------------
die sooner be longer dead:eek:

[Zapcrafter]

I've always wanted to see an aquarium system with real fish. The tropical kind that like searing hot temperatures and swimming in oil.

[Zapcrafter]

Has anyone ever hooked up an aerator to their aquarium cooling system for some hardcore bubble action?

[pastor]

just to share experience : i replaced one Alpha6035 on my TigerMP(w/XPs1700) by a TherlmalTake Volcano 9 and i'm very satisfied !!! :cool:

http://www.thermaltake.com/images/products/heatsink/v9a.jpg

the fan speed rotation variator allow you to set exactly the good ratio Noise/Performance and now my workstation is no more overheating and the noise is reduced

however i have just XP1700 and i dunno the required noise for MP2200 for instance ....

[pastor]

http://www.materiel.be/refroid/verax/images/fan.jpg

http://www.materiel.be/refroid/verax/intro.php


this article (in french :/ ) say it's totally silent
but expensives (45-49

[pastor]

and also this one for graphic cards (totally noiseless) :

Zalman ZM80A-HP

http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/0208/80Ab-3.gif

http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm80a-hp.htm

[pastor]

http://www.plasmic.dk/cocoon/pics/ani5.gif

Enclosure to isolate your noise case :p

http://www.plasmic.dk/cocoon/en/main.php

(link found on http://www.silentpcreview.com/ .... thanx Bigg for the link )

[pastor]

I don't have an obsessional nevrosis about a noise reduction but I continue to keep posting in this thread because those electronics devices annoyances are not going to improve across the time :

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/jan99_a2_f4.jpg
Figure 4: Projected power dissipation values for high performance microprocessors

chart taken from silentpcreview : http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=13&page=1

an interesting article

also i noticed some days ago that Moore law is going to be no more accurate since microchips power consumption are going to reach incredible levels in few years :/ :

http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20021210S0056

[pastor]

Heatlane Zen NCU-1000 from TS Heatronics (or TS Featronics ?) ( up to P4 2.8 Ghz )
it needs to be screwed on the motherboard

( 108 mm wide, 143 mm tall , weight : 578 g !! )

source : http://www.presence-pc.com/news/index.php3?p=1&select=&search=

[TimMR2]

2 cents worth:

After much experimentation, I have found the following to work well:
12cm Fans running slow using voltage divider (not a rheostat).
One of these 12 cm fans front facing sucking air in mounted using (I don't speak German sorry) "Slics 4 St

[powergyoza]

I mentioned this in another post, (http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30689) but anyone interested in fighting against PC noise should look here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/goto.php?t=s&id=66&a=1. I've taken care of just about every component - even the CD/DVD-ROM!

http://powergyoza.com/geek/final.jpg

[Bill Harrison]

Wow, nice thread. My pc with dual 7k RPM fans sounds about like a 757 lighting up on the runway when started.

Although to me it is music to my ears!

Long live my duallie!

[eshwayri]

What was the before temp and what is the after temp of your PSU. That is the only thing that I find realy concerning. If the PSU is not getting sufficiently cooled it could over-heat and die. Just like a sun it can go quietly or it can take out a lot of other components with it. I see you added that duct to bring it fresh air so the slow fan may be sufficient, I am just wondering if you took measurements.

Originally posted by powergyoza
I mentioned this in another post, (http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30689) but anyone interested in fighting against PC noise should look here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/goto.php?t=s&id=66&a=1. I've taken care of just about every component - even the CD/DVD-ROM!

[powergyoza]

Originally posted by eshwayri
What was the before temp and what is the after temp of your PSU. That is the only thing that I find realy concerning. If the PSU is not getting sufficiently cooled it could over-heat and die. Just like a sun it can go quietly or it can take out a lot of other components with it. I see you added that duct to bring it fresh air so the slow fan may be sufficient, I am just wondering if you took measurements.

Unfortunately, I didn't take measurements before I started modding my PSU. With my NMB (normally @ 10.5V) and the intake duct, my exhaust temps were at about 35C. I just modded the PSU again (http://forums.silentpcreview.com//viewtopic.php?t=2842 and got 32-33C with a Panaflo at an even lower voltage.

Anything below 40C has got to be reasonably safe right?

[pastor]

http://www.silentmaxx.de/pics/prosilence_fanless_master.jpg

350 W PS with passive cooling !!!

we just have to expect the same in a more dually oriented version (400-500 W)



Warp2search review here (http://www.warp2search.net/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=35)

http://www.teschke.de/heatpipes/prosilence-4.jpg

[MHz]

I solved my noise problems by going the oversized route:

http://kmcsonline.com/casemod/woodcase/project11.htm

By making the entire case of wood, the sound is decreased. Even better, the main fan is a large 172mm running at a low speed, so it's a really low-frequency hum and not a loud whirr that Deltas make.

I'm happy as hell with this case and designed it with a lot of room to expand for future systems I build in it.

[beppi]

Sorry powergyoza and MHZ

no matter how much you try as long as you have fans turning there will be noise.:(
No Cigar:p

[Rikimaru]

Those Verax (http://www.veraxfans.com) fans that pastor mentioned look pretty nice.

[powergyoza]

Originally posted by beppi
Sorry powergyoza and MHZ

no matter how much you try as long as you have fans turning there will be noise.:(
No Cigar:p
Nice setup on your machines.

In comparison to your mineral oil cooling projects. I'm sure I win no cigar :). About the only thing more exotic to do would be to try and cool simply with air and no fans. Now that's difficult. Have you seen this? IMO he takes the cigar and the cake: http://www.geocities.jp/numano3/ ;)

[beppi]

Admitt WOW, he went to extreme lengts to make it fanless. The only problem I see, too much effort for a noiseless PC and probably modified so much certain items would be not returnable during warranty.
It looks great but I stick with my simple solution:D

----------------------------------------
Die sooner be longer dead:eek:

[pastor]

Originally posted by powergyoza
Nice setup on your machines.

In comparison to your mineral oil cooling projects. I'm sure I win no cigar :). About the only thing more exotic to do would be to try and cool simply with air and no fans. Now that's difficult. Have you seen this? IMO he takes the cigar and the cake: http://www.geocities.jp/numano3/ ;)

Whoaww, look great but i don' really understand how it is built !

[CAL]

It all reminds me of the ca. 1987 ETA Systems project that submerged a supercomputer board in liquid nitrogen -- all to get it up to (as I recall) about 143 MHz. Real quiet if you ignored the cryogenerator in the next room.

[NAJ]

I just lightly skemmed through this post but I am very happy with my Papst they are alittle expensive but you can't hear them. The other principle I have come to believe is that the more metal you have the better. I get the biggest heatsinks available then a 12dB fan will be enough. Also I have played with how tight the screwes are for my hard drives and fans. Vibration is a large soirce of noice in a computer. The other option is placing the computer as far away from you as you can and setting it on the ground so the carpet can pick up some of the noise, but depending on your thinking might not want to set it directly on the capter.

[pastor]

zalman heatpipe for harddisks ZM-2HC1 :

http://www.presence-pc.com/images/zalman_zm-2hc1_big.jpg

146 x 146 x 36.5 mm 54 g 35

[vidpro]

Well here is what i THINK (opinion) confused pile of useless thoughts.

it all sux :-)
every usefull operating passive method it HUGE
water cooling is like trying to keep the doughboy pool out back intact
sound dampening materials (like dynomatte) on the case are Ok if you have 60HTZ bass, but we got 5000htz whiney fans.

and the DUMBEST thing of all, is if you open your case to the open air, you can dump 2-5 fans ALLTOGETHER, other than the cpu and high end GPUs PSU most of this stuff not only will, but was tested in open air.

so there we go stick it INSIDE a hot case, then put a fan on it, like DUHH :-)
But lets point out how REALLY stupid the average PC is, we peel the heat off the cpu, to dump it into the CASE, then tear it out of the case, and into the air, FINALLY.

why does my computer sound like a hovercraft? because every solution just adds one more stupid problem.

so lets take for example the open air computer, whats wrong with it ? dust and metal parts falling into it.
and where does all the dust come from now that collects on everything, blowing it right into the case with the fans. its a computer, no its a honeywell air filtration device.

normal high temps arent a problem, do we go crasy trying to get the cpu to 30* when it runs ok at 50* , and why? to brag about how low it is? or to overclock it? Hey we got 2 Big cpus, overclocking should be an issue, especially after spending 400$ and 18 hours, and 3 hours a week overclocking something 15% with water cooling, how much would a real processor have cost instead? instead with overclocking we have the assurance that we NEVER KNOW why the system is instable.

Encase the poor hot hard drive in some sound dampening materials , then 5 seconds later find out you need to add 2 more fans to it to stop it from thermally recalibrating every 10 seconds, and that the extra heat toasted the thing 2x faster than its aleged 100,000H MTBF, sure you believe a hard drive lasts that long.

So put some filters on the fans to stop the Blanketing of dust on every part, and being slammed onto the heatsync destroying it primadonna efficiency in 6 months after you bought it, who cares, when the next review comes out, you will be replacing it anyways , with the new wizz bang, 700LB hunk of copper junk DANGLING off your board sideways tearing out the solderpoints.

how many slots do you think they can cover with a video cooler, well give them time, eventually they can cover the whole computer in one big GPU heatsync. WHY why is my 9700 putting out 50-60W of heat when it isnt doing difficult 3d operations? why when the old crusty matrox card running at the same res and refresh rate didnt even need a passive sync. another example of total waste. its almost as if the manufacturers are FEEDING off of psyco cooling. like they put nichrome heater wire through thier processor, so everyone can say OHHHH look how i cooled it :-)

CMF=NOISE
doesnt mater which wizz bang aleged to be silent fan it is, it either puts out NOISE, or it dont move air, and when the motor is FULLY silent, the air movement itself across the fins is still there. the only total acception to cmf=noise, is SIZE, tear big holes in the case and put in SLOW rpm 120mm fans and you can achieve the same movement of air with less noise, one good options.

So why does a AMD cpu output 70W of heat, when it ISNT DOING ANYTHING :-) i can see it outputting 90+W of heat when it IS, but whats the deal with HLT cooling?, where did it go? what kind of efficency do we have here when the whole world is going high tech with energy star energy reducing capacity, and the highest tech item in the whole world , cant even cool out when the system only needs 10% from the sorry thing?

On the double heat removal
why do we pull heat off the cpu and INTO the case, why not have the cpu fan serve a dual purpose? its still deep inside the case, and therfore isnt make to much noise to the outside (unless you have delta jet engines on it) so why not duct the external air direct to the cpu, or better yet, reverse it , blow the cpu heat RIGHT OUT OF THE CASE in one move. beats heating up the boards power regulators, and the PSU with it, destroying thier effeciency. the open air computer solves this problem again.

if you think i am going to upgrade my motherboard, by pulling it out of a poor version of a PCBd PG&E transformer oil filled contraption, your crasy, i have a hard enough time keeping the dog from licking up the anti freeze :-)

sanity , is good for the average computer.

[stephen2002]

You make good points. I still don't understand why they can't design a cooler that ducts the CPU heat right out of the case instead of spitting it straight into the case. That would eliminate most of the issues faced by cooling the PC as that is where most of the heat comes from.

[scheme]

Originally posted by stephen2002
You make good points. I still don't understand why they can't design a cooler that ducts the CPU heat right out of the case instead of spitting it straight into the case. That would eliminate most of the issues faced by cooling the PC as that is where most of the heat comes from.

They do make ducts for cpus. The problem is that different motherboards have the cpu(s) located in different locations. It's a little difficult to have air ducts if you need to supply 30 variations to support various combinations of cases and motherboards. OEMs like Dell can use air ducts because they can control the layout of the case and motherboard.

Personally I think with proper cooling, your system needs only 4 or 5 fans (1 for power supply, 1 or 2 for the cpus, 1 for video card, and 1 for the rest of the system). If you run slow 120mm fans, you can get a relatively quiet system. The problem is that a lot of other components generate noise. Everything from hard drives that have high pitched whines, to optical drives that sound like a vacuum when they spin up.

Unfortunately with the increased heat output by all system components, I don't see computers getting significantly quieter anytime soon without changes in how people choose computers and components.

The fact that vornado fans at 50-60 db sell isn't a promising sign. I don't understand why anyone would want a fan that would violate OSHA health requirements if used. But the fact is that loud, high cfm fans seem to sell so a lot people are still focusing on things other than noise.

[KimVette]

WHAT?

I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE 11 HIGH-CFM FANS IN EACH OF MY SUPEMICRO SC-750 CASES.

WHAT? SPEAK UP! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!

Next time I upgrade these systems I'm cutting out the louvers, etc. and going with quieter fans because the noise floor is just too high with these systems.

[audioaficionado]

I replaced my mini-shopvac Intel Windtunnels with the passive CM-04 heatpipes in my sig. Now the only thing I hear is the GPU fan and hard drives accessing.

I also replaced most of my fans with Nexus silent fans plus two 80mm Nexus fans I have strapped to the CM-04s.

[michaeld]

Originally posted by stephen2002
You make good points. I still don't understand why they can't design a cooler that ducts the CPU heat right out of the case instead of spitting it straight into the case. That would eliminate most of the issues faced by cooling the PC as that is where most of the heat comes from.

Dell has been doing just that w/their PCs and Workstations for years.

At work, we just got in some of the new Dell dual-Xeon workstations. (Can't remember the model #).

But they are dual 3.2 Xeons, 2GB memory, SATA RAID, etc. It appears they are using the stock Nocona Intel passive heatsinks. (Copper, tall...about 4" high)

There's a heat shroud over both CPUs which have big, passive heatsinks on them. The shroud terminates at the rear of the case where there are two 80mm exhaust fans which you can barely hear unless you put your ear to them. IIRC, there's a single 80mm low-speed intake fan at the front of the case.

It's all about The Design.

[Sn@bE[KjP]666]

my computer has to be real noisy because i wanna hear it
and if anything is wrong - i would hear it too
thats the reason
i'm proud to be loud
where is the next contest for loudness like that ones for car hifi ???
i want to win this one
...don't put your finger into that fan or it cuts off... YEAH

THE KRAUTS ARE LOUD IN HOLIDAY

[jamesavery22]

Originally posted by Sn@bE[KjP]666
my computer has to be real noisy because i wanna hear it
and if anything is wrong - i would hear it too
thats the reason
i'm proud to be loud
where is the next contest for loudness like that ones for car hifi ???
i want to win this one
...don't put your finger into that fan or it cuts off... YEAH

THE KRAUTS ARE LOUD IN HOLIDAY

lol that doesnt make much sense.

"my computer has to be real noisy because i wanna hear it"

Doesnt that just mean you are deaf?

And how does a loud fan or a quiet fan improve or hurt the ability to tell if something is wrong? And wrong in what way other than your loud fan is going bad?

Maybe you should look up mbm5 and its ability to monitor things for you... not to mention use the PC beep for alerts and/or take actions for you like shut stuff down...

[jamesavery22]

My additions to quiet PCing:

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jtorres/Pics/HTPC/PICT0022.JPG

old old pic
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jtorres/Pics/heatsink9.jpg


I'll have updated pics for both those projects and hopefully in the next few months I'll have time to finish my baseboard heater project.

[audioaficionado]

Baseboard heater?

My Xeon duallie is a lot quieter now but it's still a 500W space heater LOL.

[jamesavery22]

Originally posted by audioaficionado
Baseboard heater?

My Xeon duallie is a lot quieter now but it's still a 500W space heater LOL.

Grainger let me order through my company as long as I just paid cash:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611779157&ccitem=

:D

Been sitting in my window sile for like 4 months now. Even made a turbulator for it.

But no pump, no blocks, valve+ disconnect setup needs to be made, and the list goes on.

But that all has to happen after I finish cleaning up my htpc setup AND sell it, same with my P4 setup. Then build a dothan setup to replace those two PCs.

Really wish there were more hours in the day...

[pissboy]

And this thread comes back from the dead. :)

[Sn@bE[KjP]666]

hey jamesavery22
the same for cars - people like it when there's a good sound coming out
the bad side for air cooling: temps depend on the environmental temps

[jamesavery22]

Originally posted by Sn@bE[KjP]666
hey jamesavery22
the same for cars - people like it when there's a good sound coming out
the bad side for air cooling: temps depend on the environmental temps

yo,
huh? talking about exhausts? Think I missed a post or something :confused:

[Kimpsu]

Had to answer "My head hurts", since I did not quite understand the other answers :|

[shoarthing]

A few thoughts . . .

I eventually made a dual-Opteron box genuinely quiet [around 15~ish dBA]; this quietening cost about as much again as the workstation components.

Key ingredients to getting it genuinely quiet were:

Passive watercooling [a pair of Reserators] for the CPUs & GPU, a watercooled PSU, & HDDs watercooled & sealed inside a thick sheet-lead box.

The thing still has 5x fans: 2x 80mm 'noiseblocker S1' at around 10v & ruubber-mounted to exhaust the enclosure, & 3x Vantec 'IceberQ CCB-A1C' at 6v to keep the 2200/2050/8131 of the K8WE vaguely under control - if passively cooled in a low-flow enclosure, these components' temperatures runaway up to 90C plus.

The Noiseblockers are quieter than Panaflo L1As at the same voltage, & move a lot more air.

Most irritating noise-source [sigh] is now the Dell FPW2405 . . . but the whole shooting-match is a pleasure to use.

[tecton3d]

oh! just let me listen the breeze

...and a stiff breeze (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa12ulhisp.html) it is with 4 systems with these puppies for exhaust:)

[tiger100]

the best solution to lowering noise is to use either no fans or one fan. The new BTX format was desgned to use one fan to cool the entire case. This CAN be done with an ATX case, but you have to be realistic about what video card you use, etc. One 120 mm fan can cool a mid size tower, and there are plenty of quiet PS available for not too much dough. If you keep your room temp reasonable, the above can work well. I generally avoid small 80mm fans, esp for larger cases. One 120 is much better than two 80. I also cut out any case metal that covers the fan ie the area of small holes. One large hole is much quieter, less turbulence less noise. The above post about using 5v is an excellent idea, so keep em coming ! any fav fan brands ?

[jtleon]

I've been running CPU fan free for months in an overclocked condition.
I'm using Intel's passive all copper Xeon heatsink solution (see photo, note cpu fans are only shown during a test, and have since been stored). Sure they are huge, and heavy, but absolutely silent only requiring adequate case ventilation in an 80F+ office environment (This is Arizona!).

I have opted for slow spinning 120MM case fans with speed control (Thankyou Sunbeam).

http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/Trio/trio.htm

The outcome...almost complete silence, as long as the DVD is not accessed.

One more thing, I must thank AMSelectronics for their XPS silent PS (dual fans).

[PCPete]

I haven't read thecomplete thread, but here's some info that hopefully hasn't been mentioned before. I felt like I had to explain some of this, having seen some of the hovercraft pictures, and seeing many, many good PCs badly cooled by well-intentioned owners.

Basically, fan speed = more CFM = more noise. No-brainer so far.

But most fan manufacturers use cheap glass-filled epoxy casts for the fan blades (instead of metal, which is much better in the long run), and you can get some relief from noise by : a) Getting a good, metal-bladed fan; b) making sure the fan uses ball bearings, not bronze bushes; c) Polishing the blade backs (the wide flat part of the blades), d) carefully sharpening the leading edges (with a Dremel or hot knife attachment to your soldering station), and e) DON'T PERFORATE THE CASE!

Polishing the blade backs, if you have access to fine grinding paste (and if it's a reasonably good-quality fan, not a $20 bearingless Chinese whipper snipper), can reduce fan noise (due mainly to turbulence) by up to 12dB. That's a hell of a lot of noise, given that most "overclocker" fans are untuned cast plastic generating more than 60dB! If you get good results, you'll find the fans can be about a quarter as noisy (see the next point though).

If you have a really steady hand and a good grinder, or a hot-blade attachment if you have a good plastic fan, you can -carefully- sharpen the leading edge of the fan blades to a razor sharpness. It has to be done at a tiny angle, so the blade slices the air rather than beating it into submission! If you're lucky and careful, you can lose another 10-16dB of noise. Be aware though, that even a tiny wiggle can unbalance the blade and generate more noise than ever before. But it's worth trying, and it's even fun.

I know we all love drilling holes, but remember, lots of little holes up close to the fan := massive turbulence := massive noise problems. Think of each little hole as a potential flute, or maybe a trombone! If you're truly serious about using fans and still eliminating noise, cut out the external fan ports entirely. Don't drill bunches of holes, and don't use a grille (unless you live with stupid people who stick their fingers in noisy holes, or you have a lot of loose cables hanging in front of a fan exhaust - which is itself a contributor to fan noise).

Sucking or blowing: positive ventilation (sucking in air from outside the case) is great - IF there's a place for the air to escape. You can have (and I have seen) cases with up to 8 fans sucking air into a case - and nowhere for this massive quantity of air to get out except through a tiny grille or through floppy drive flaps! So the fans spin uselessly, as they can't force more air into a case with higher air pressure than the fan's rated efficiency, and no air goes anywhere. It makes a lot of noise, though! If the air can't escape, taking the heat with it, it just gets hot and turbulent, and sometimes that makes a small cooling difference, but not enough for serious cooling, since sooner or later the air will be evenly heated and still have nowhere to go.

Every time I see a picture of a "maxi mega beast" with more fans than a hovercraft, I start laughing, because sure as sh!t they're all blowing in the same direction. I can get more efficient cooling with two fans than anyone can get with 10 fans, if they're all blowing into the case.

So have at least as many fans sucking air into the case as you have blowing out of the case. And preferably position them on the opposite side of the case - putting two different flow direction fans near one another is pointless.

Bottom or top? Suck the cool air from low down in the case, blow it out from high up in the case. You'll get more efficiency and better cooling at lower fan speeds. This is also one of the many reasons why it's better to site the motherboard as low in the case as possible. Unfortunately, the PC2100 case I use puts the motherboard at the top of the case, which makes things less efficient (even with the airflow separators built in to the case).

For most quietness? Use watercooling. Actually, that's wrong - use GOOD watercooling. If a cooling fitting leaks, it's not good. And a small cooling block is just as effective as some humungous copper monstrosity weighing a pound or more. If it's that heavy, it has massive thermal inertia - and that means the water isn't going to drag the heat out of it fast enough. Zalman coolers are borderline (even though I use WB2 or WB3 on just about everything I can attach 'em to) because at faster flow rates, they generate lots of turbulence - and that means the water flow isn't going to get rid of the heat efficiently.